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Post by Hugh Pearson on Feb 27, 2018 14:37:52 GMT
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Post by zaqwilson on Feb 27, 2018 15:33:33 GMT
Interesting.
Raises a sliver of hope something could be lurking in a collection down under.
Thank you for sharing!
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Post by Chris Wilkinson on Feb 27, 2018 15:47:37 GMT
'MEL DUP' could reasonably be interpreted as 'Melbourne Duplicate', which if true, implies that each state likely had a duplicate of its own.
If BBC Enterprises sent only one print out to Australia, then when it came to the 1975 recall, they'd surely only ask for the one print back - perhaps unaware of the duplicates (if any) that were made.
The article makes quite a reasonable conclusion - '...if multiple prints were struck, and only one set each were sent back to the BBC, then it is a possibility that others may still exist here in Australia, if not on the hands of the ABC, then in the hands of film collectors'.
But if this individual has only the film can in their possession, not the film print, isn't it also reasonable to assume that they too have been junked? This reminds me of the Marco Polo #7 film can discovered in Wellington, New Zealand in 1990.
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Post by zaqwilson on Feb 27, 2018 16:19:28 GMT
I read on the forum a while back that it was suspected that with a large country like Australia, multiple prints would be required to broadcast in different time zones. If so, by now they would likely be junked, but there is a chance something remains.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 27, 2018 16:22:53 GMT
A print for projection/broadcast is a positive which is struck from a negative. To make another positive from a positive you have to first make an interneg. If Australia needed multiple prints it would be a lot more cost effective to ship them negatives. However, you only need multiple prints if you’re broadcasting the same programme at the same time. Unfortunately we have a lot of the broadcast dates for the regional stations in Australia and this, which I posted on another thread, shows what happened for Evil and Tomb. What it shows is that Tomb (a 4 part story) took about a year to be broadcast while Evil (a 7 part story) took about eighteen months. It’s obvious what happened. The story was shown completely in one location and then bicycled to the next. I suspect that there was a “standard” route around Australia and other programmes, films, etc would have done the same.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 27, 2018 16:24:52 GMT
Oops, it took them longer to show Tomb than Evil !
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 19:20:02 GMT
Didn't somebody on one forum once fess up to putting 300 film prints of Doctor Who through a bandsaw in an Australian tv station? I vaguely recall that posters at the time were dubious as to the number, as well as the fact the Australian prints were returned to the UK.
Were these the dupes we are speaking of here that were put through that bandsaw? 300 made?
If anyone can find the reference on that... was it the BroaDWcast page on Australia?
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Post by John Wall on Feb 27, 2018 20:37:15 GMT
Didn't somebody on one forum once fess up to putting 300 film prints of Doctor Who through a bandsaw in an Australian tv station? I vaguely recall that posters at the time were dubious as to the number, as well as the fact the Australian prints were returned to the UK. Were these the dupes we are speaking of here that were put through that bandsaw? 300 made? If anyone can find the reference on that... was it the BroaDWcast page on Australia? Sounds like the one that got away.......
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 22:13:36 GMT
This is the post the ex-employee made, and it's mentioned on the BroaDWcast website, Australian Sales page, (WILLIAM HARTNELL - Fate of the Prints?) as being originally posted on the Australian AUDIO/VISUAL FORUM on 1 Sept 2003: "Fess up time! And just who do you think put the axe through the Australian copies of the first 300 approx b/w 16mm telerecordings of the early Dr Who episodes - only to find out years later that the BBC had junked most of their originals.
It was a long, long time ago, in another life … but I will carry this shame with me to my grave, along with the destruction of another early BBC classic "Sci Fi" series called "Out Of The Unknown", my excuse, much like the Nazis at the Nuremberg trials, is/was "Just following orders" – God what a waste!
The only bright side was that some years later whilst doing a bin search of the main program vault, looking for another missing program, I found one Dr Who episode that had been miss-binned and not junked with all the others, and it turned out to be after consulting with BBC Archives, the only print of this particular episode left in the world... "The Celestial Toymaker", alas it was only 1 episode out of a 4 or 5 part story IIRC, still it was returned to the Beeb with much thanks from them and I believe [it later] went through a print restoration process by BBC Archives. Shame, Shame, Shame..." Jet:ph34r"This number of destroyed episodes is then quite rightly called into question on the BroaDWcast website: If this is indeed a true and accurate account of events, how has the figure of "300 approx" been arrived at? There were 253 Hartnell and Troughton episodes, plus 78 Pertwees on 16mm film, out of which 17 Hartnell episodes had been sent to New Zealand in 1967, and some Pertwees to Singapore in 1974, with the bulk sent to London in mid-1975, so that's less than 200!If these multiple dupes that we are talking about on this thread were those that were put through the band-saw then surely that would account for this mysterious number of 300 approx destroyed episodes? So is this the fate of the duplicates made? I wish we could talk to the ex-employee to ask him to look at the image of the film can and label that housed the Macra Terror # 3 print to confirm if he removed the 300 approx film reels from these type of cans. The original AUDIO/VISUAL thread no longer seems to exist, but here is the link to the BroaDWcast page: gallifreybase.com/w/index.php/Australia_Sales
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Post by John Wall on Feb 27, 2018 22:51:37 GMT
Look at the Australia page gallifreybase.com/w/index.php/Australia“In the early years of television broadcasts, each state had its own regional scheduling, which meant that different episodes of Doctor Who aired on different days, often many months apart. On rare occasions, the same episode aired on the same day but in different states, which meant that multiple prints of some episodes may have existed, although there were other methods by which 'dual' transmissions across the different states could be achieved. There were not only scheduling differences between states but the larger ones – such as Queensland - also had regional city-to-city variances within the state.” I don’t believe there were any dupes. It’s someone who had to destroy a lot of prints giving an appropriate figure. I could say that the 60s were fifty years ago - they’re actually between 58 and 48 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 23:23:22 GMT
So what do think the Marca Terror #3 film can is, John, if not the dupe its purported to be?
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Post by John Wall on Feb 27, 2018 23:35:00 GMT
So what do think the Marca Terror #3 film can is, John, if not the dupe its purported to be? The label on it says “Colony in Space” and suggests a negative. It looks like a can that was reused. Do we actually know that it’s genuine? Is there any evidence that Australia was supplied with negatives so that they could strike multiple prints? It’s possible as they were a good customer that paid a decent amount per story - but did Auntie supply negatives ? I don’t know the answer to that.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 28, 2018 0:17:29 GMT
Not quite sure what you're getting at here, John. There are clearly two entirely different film cans in the photos.
The Colony material is nothing new and copies of all of it was taken by the BBC many years ago. This was one of several cans of original camera negative that Ian Levine acquired from his time at the BBC which were then sold to collector Mick Hall. Mick sold them on eBay back in September 2004 in in this case, this reel, lasting 1'42" was sold with one other (model footage of the colonist's dome) for £46.00. It was later resold.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 28, 2018 0:27:20 GMT
Oops, eyesight problems!
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Post by Robbie Moubert on Mar 1, 2018 0:17:24 GMT
The tape on the side of that supposed Macra Terror can looks suspiciously clean and new.
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