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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Jan 6, 2018 21:25:50 GMT
How and why on Earth did THOSE TWO fall out Scott????Both working towards the same end-is there something we should know about? I don’t presume to know what’s going on but one can look at the tweets made by Mr. Morris before Christmas. And Scot,those tweets said what?Sorry to be a pain...
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Post by Scot Ferre on Jan 6, 2018 21:41:05 GMT
I don’t presume to know what’s going on but one can look at the tweets made by Mr. Morris before Christmas. And Scot,those tweets said what?Sorry to be a pain...
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Jan 6, 2018 22:36:08 GMT
And Scot,those tweets said what?Sorry to be a pain... Good grief Scot,this is unbelievable!If it's true then we are now privy to the secret and dark underbelly of Dr Who Fandom /missing episode hunting. Almost makes you want to be sick and cry at the same time..thanks so much for providing that.What are other learned members' thoughts?
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Post by stevehoare61 on Jan 7, 2018 11:25:20 GMT
well that was quite an eye opener,...it doesnt change my personal view of Phil, Ive nothing against him at all, I just wish we could see some progress, with TV in general. As for Mr Perry, well, Ill bet he regrets writing letters like that...but please do remember he was a kid, a stupid kid, but still a kid.We all wrote and did stupid things when we were 14...unless of course theres more?
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Post by Chris Wilkinson on Jan 7, 2018 11:41:46 GMT
Good grief Scot,this is unbelievable!If it's true then we are now privy to the secret and dark underbelly of Dr Who Fandom /missing episode hunting. Almost makes you want to be sick and cry at the same time..thanks so much for providing that.What are other learned members' thoughts? Upon looking at further evidence, this is a letter written by Chris Perry when he was 14 years old to blackmail Ian Levine and Jan Vincent Rudski (and later Paul Vanezis) in the late 1980s as he suspected them to be withholding missing episodes. It is also apparently indicative of Kaleidoscope's current work practices, according to Phil Morris at least.
My question is how would Phil Morris know about Kaleidoscope's work practices when he has nothing to do with them? As someone aptly pointed out within the tirade of Twitter comments beneath it, this may have been done simply out of spite as Kaleidoscope has recently been in the limelight what with them working with Simply Media and the Missing Believed Wiped event held recently.
In the end, it seems as though there's bad stuff on both sides. It does alarm me to see such a dark, and frankly evil, undertone to the world of missing episodes. People constantly fuelling speculation with no substance, things never turning up, jealousy regarding media attention, personal vendettas etc. Maybe if people learned to work more co-operatively with one another, we might get more done in recovering lost material. I suppose for some, it's competition; a game. They expect the fame and glory to come uncompromised, even when they've done nothing to deserve it.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Jan 7, 2018 19:39:20 GMT
Good grief Scot,this is unbelievable!If it's true then we are now privy to the secret and dark underbelly of Dr Who Fandom /missing episode hunting. Almost makes you want to be sick and cry at the same time..thanks so much for providing that.What are other learned members' thoughts? Upon looking at further evidence, this is a letter written by Chris Perry when he was 14 years old to blackmail Ian Levine and Jan Vincent Rudski (and later Paul Vanezis) in the late 1980s as he suspected them to be withholding missing episodes. It is also apparently indicative of Kaleidoscope's current work practices, according to Phil Morris at least.
My question is how would Phil Morris know about Kaleidoscope's work practices when he has nothing to do with them? As someone aptly pointed out within the tirade of Twitter comments beneath it, this may have been done simply out of spite as Kaleidoscope has recently been in the limelight what with them working with Simply Media and the Missing Believed Wiped event held recently.
In the end, it seems as though there's bad stuff on both sides. It does alarm me to see such a dark, and frankly evil, undertone to the world of missing episodes. People constantly fuelling speculation with no substance, things never turning up, jealousy regarding media attention, personal vendettas etc. Maybe if people learned to work more co-operatively with one another, we might get more done in recovering lost material. I suppose for some, it's competition; a game. They expect the fame and glory to come uncompromised, even when they've done nothing to deserve it.
So Chris,no change there then...😠
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Post by Chris Wilkinson on Jan 7, 2018 21:25:07 GMT
Upon looking at further evidence, this is a letter written by Chris Perry when he was 14 years old to blackmail Ian Levine and Jan Vincent Rudski (and later Paul Vanezis) in the late 1980s as he suspected them to be withholding missing episodes. It is also apparently indicative of Kaleidoscope's current work practices, according to Phil Morris at least.
My question is how would Phil Morris know about Kaleidoscope's work practices when he has nothing to do with them? As someone aptly pointed out within the tirade of Twitter comments beneath it, this may have been done simply out of spite as Kaleidoscope has recently been in the limelight what with them working with Simply Media and the Missing Believed Wiped event held recently.
In the end, it seems as though there's bad stuff on both sides. It does alarm me to see such a dark, and frankly evil, undertone to the world of missing episodes. People constantly fuelling speculation with no substance, things never turning up, jealousy regarding media attention, personal vendettas etc. Maybe if people learned to work more co-operatively with one another, we might get more done in recovering lost material. I suppose for some, it's competition; a game. They expect the fame and glory to come uncompromised, even when they've done nothing to deserve it.
So Chris,no change there then...😠 Absolutely not. It's business as usual, ha!
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Jan 7, 2018 22:36:01 GMT
Gents,
Please don't stray into speculation about peoples motives please.
Regarding mine and my dislike of Christopher Perry, it stems from an incident he stage managed at the first event he organised in 1988. He then made (and continues to make to this day) false claims about me in relation to that incident in order (I assume) to make me appear unreliable. He wasn't 14 when it happened. He was a fresh 18 year old. I am perfectly prepared to give people the benefit of the doubt, but his actions on that day, beforehand and in relation to me since are things that frankly, nobody in their right mind would forgive. I'll give my account one day, when the time is right. It's supported by plenty of eyewitnesses and paperwork.
Paul
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Post by stevehoare61 on Jan 8, 2018 8:27:25 GMT
Im not sure I want to know, its just such a sad shame that two organisations with exactly the same goals cant just work together...(couldnt you just give them a kick up the arse and tell them to grow up,lol) Thats a thought , not a suggestion Paul.
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RWels
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Posts: 2,857
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Post by RWels on Jan 8, 2018 17:41:21 GMT
What a pity, all this: Kal seems to have some momentum at the moment; I fear if all went pearshaped due to personal issues, that the victims would be the episodes.
It's hard to judge any letter if you don't know what happened before or after and who the other person is. As a bystander you just don't know - in itself it's understandable to try and get access to material if someone is keeping it isolated. I don't particularly like the attitude of that Australian archive; his tweet just appears childishly vindictive and personal against the whole organisation because he was removed from their FB group, when the guy is operating much along the same lines as KAL, i.e. advancing his own position.
PS: Also, I have no idea what goes on behind the screens, so I am not defending or condemning any current behaviour. But on second thought, if this letter is literally from a 14, or even 18 year old Chris, then it's far too long ago and I wonder why it was even kept all this time. If he's done something questionable recently, okay, sure. But 30-year-old letters, if that's what they are, that is in my opinion expired and totally irrelevant. (Was any of us perfect as a teenager? I know I wasn't. Also, even Phil Morris himself has on at least one occasion publicly lied - for a good cause, but it was still a lie.)
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Jan 8, 2018 23:34:24 GMT
What a pity, all this: Kal seems to have some momentum at the moment; I fear if all went pearshaped due to personal issues, that the victims would be the episodes. It's hard to judge any letter if you don't know what happened before or after and who the other person is. As a bystander you just don't know - in itself it's understandable to try and get access to material if someone is keeping it isolated. I don't particularly like the attitude of that Australian archive; his tweet just appears childishly vindictive and personal against the whole organisation because he was removed from their FB group, when the guy is operating much along the same lines as KAL, i.e. advancing his own position. PS: Also, I have no idea what goes on behind the screens, so I am not defending or condemning any current behaviour. But on second thought, if this letter is literally from a 14, or even 18 year old Chris, then it's far too long ago and I wonder why it was even kept all this time. If he's done something questionable recently, okay, sure. But 30-year-old letters, if that's what they are, that is in my opinion expired and totally irrelevant. (Was any of us perfect as a teenager? I know I wasn't. Also, even Phil Morris himself has on at least one occasion publicly lied - for a good cause, but it was still a lie.) Well, regarding the position of James Paterson of the Australian Television Archive, first think about what Chris Perry did AFTER booting him off his Facebook page. He accused him of various things which could damage his legitimate business, effectively calling him a video pirate. Personally, I think that's the pot calling the kettle black! But regardless, it's not what you do unless you have some agenda. My experience of Chris Perry (not Kaleidoscope) is that he always has some personal reason for following a course of action, usually not that well thought out, from which he thinks he will benefit. So, regardless of whether you think James' actions are childishly vindictive or not, look at it from his point of view. The letter from 30 odd years ago, which was written by a 14 year old would under normal circumstances be dismissed as the work of an inexperienced juvenile. But that letter, coupled with more recent actions by Chris, including what happened to me and this incident with James points to behaviour that is not normal. But goodness me, there is worse stuff that has happened in between and when you add all of that in, well it's an open and shut case. For example, Ed Kemmer who is also a member here has previously pointed out that he would not, under any circumstances deal with Kaleidoscope again, after he was hoodwinked by them. I am sure that Ed will correct me if I am in error here, but Kal (I assume that it was Chris) contacted him to borrow his print of a lost show, confirming that they would arrange a copy to be made for the rights holder, then returned to Ed. What actually happened was that six months went by, during which his film was copied and traded between other members of Kaleidoscope and not in fact returned to any rights holder. If I was unwittingly implicated in the 'piracy' of copyright material, I would be unhappy about it as well. And if that were the first and last time I had heard of this type of behaviour, perhaps even I would have given Chris the benefit of the doubt once again. But if it happened that one time, there is no question in my view that it will have happened again. In fact it's stories like that I keep hearing. It's a trail of broken promises by someone who says he will do something to get what he wants and when he has got what he wants, doesn't fulfill his part of the bargain. And before anyone goes crying into their milk and accuse me of slander or worse, believe me when I say that I have chosen my words carefully. So, bearing in mind that Philip Morris has been let down in the past by people he has confided in, do you really think I would have not told him the full story of how Chris operates? His behaviour, in my personal view, has not varied enough for him to miraculously become the saint some believe he is. I'm sorry if this disappointing to hear, Paul
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jan 9, 2018 0:31:19 GMT
Well, nevertheless, posting a 30 year old letter as "evidence" is a somewhat disappointing move as well. I don't know why Morris - who must after all be a practical man - doesn't simply ignore Mr Perry if he doesn't want to deal with him. Don't mistake that for defending Chris - I am simply not qualified to judge (for example I know he can make promises easily, but I myself have not found him to be handing out bootlegs just like that - ha, if only) and that's not what this board is here for anyway. For the average bystander this just seems like nasty infighting and dirty laundry, when Kal seems to be doing some good work too, with results, screenings for charity, and getting publicity, and all that. Or at least, that's how it all appears on the surface to me.
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Post by Chris Wilkinson on Jan 9, 2018 1:30:14 GMT
I suppose it is disappointing to hear that such a conflict exists beneath it all, but I guess as in many other areas of life, things are not always what they seem. The recovery of missing material is a dangerous game in more ways than one - I think we can gather from this exchange that the danger is not always physical but personal. There's a lot that we fans and spectators don't know, and may never know, and the last thing I wish to do is speculate about the unknown. I agree with RWels that this is not the place to discuss such matters.
Regarding the purpose of this particular post, I would like to know what missing episodes people think will be recovered this year (if any). According to my research and Missing Episode Tracker, we now have the potential for only two full serials to be recovered from overseas. I have stated that the likeliest of those based on the evidence will be 'The Wheel in Space', which I hope materialises later this year. What are people's thoughts on this, and what do you think will turn up if you disagree?
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Martin Kinsella
Member
Follow me on Disqus http://disqus.com/Martin_Kinsella/
Posts: 153
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Post by Martin Kinsella on Jan 9, 2018 12:47:00 GMT
What a pity, all this: Kal seems to have some momentum at the moment; I fear if all went pearshaped due to personal issues, that the victims would be the episodes. It's hard to judge any letter if you don't know what happened before or after and who the other person is. As a bystander you just don't know - in itself it's understandable to try and get access to material if someone is keeping it isolated. I don't particularly like the attitude of that Australian archive; his tweet just appears childishly vindictive and personal against the whole organisation because he was removed from their FB group, when the guy is operating much along the same lines as KAL, i.e. advancing his own position. PS: Also, I have no idea what goes on behind the screens, so I am not defending or condemning any current behaviour. But on second thought, if this letter is literally from a 14, or even 18 year old Chris, then it's far too long ago and I wonder why it was even kept all this time. If he's done something questionable recently, okay, sure. But 30-year-old letters, if that's what they are, that is in my opinion expired and totally irrelevant. (Was any of us perfect as a teenager? I know I wasn't. Also, even Phil Morris himself has on at least one occasion publicly lied - for a good cause, but it was still a lie.) Well, regarding the position of James Paterson of the Australian Television Archive, first think about what Chris Perry did AFTER booting him off his Facebook page. He accused him of various things which could damage his legitimate business, effectively calling him a video pirate. Personally, I think that's the pot calling the kettle black! But regardless, it's not what you do unless you have some agenda. My experience of Chris Perry (not Kaleidoscope) is that he always has some personal reason for following a course of action, usually not that well thought out, from which he thinks he will benefit. So, regardless of whether you think James' actions are childishly vindictive or not, look at it from his point of view. The letter from 30 odd years ago, which was written by a 14 year old would under normal circumstances be dismissed as the work of an inexperienced juvenile. But that letter, coupled with more recent actions by Chris, including what happened to me and this incident with James points to behaviour that is not normal. But goodness me, there is worse stuff that has happened in between and when you add all of that in, well it's an open and shut case. For example, Ed Kemmer who is also a member here has previously pointed out that he would not, under any circumstances deal with Kaleidoscope again, after he was hoodwinked by them. I am sure that Ed will correct me if I am in error here, but Kal (I assume that it was Chris) contacted him to borrow his print of a lost show, confirming that they would arrange a copy to be made for the rights holder, then returned to Ed. What actually happened was that six months went by, during which his film was copied and traded between other members of Kaleidoscope and not in fact returned to any rights holder. If I was unwittingly implicated in the 'piracy' of copyright material, I would be unhappy about it as well. And if that were the first and last time I had heard of this type of behaviour, perhaps even I would have given Chris the benefit of the doubt once again. But if it happened that one time, there is no question in my view that it will have happened again. In fact it's stories like that I keep hearing. It's a trail of broken promises by someone who says he will do something to get what he wants and when he has got what he wants, doesn't fulfill his part of the bargain. And before anyone goes crying into their milk and accuse me of slander or worse, believe me when I say that I have chosen my words carefully. So, bearing in mind that Philip Morris has been let down in the past by people he has confided in, do you really think I would have not told him the full story of how Chris operates? His behaviour, in my personal view, has not varied enough for him to miraculously become the saint some believe he is. I'm sorry if this disappointing to hear, Paul I doubt anyone could rightly accuse anyone of slander based on what they have written. It is disappointing to hear as you all do great stuff.
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Sofia Fox
Member
Favourite Missing Stories: Marco Polo, The Crusade, The Myth Makers, The Macra Terror, and Evil.
Posts: 75
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Post by Sofia Fox on Jan 9, 2018 22:39:16 GMT
The two full stories that might return this year (based off of the information of prints sent to Nigeria) The Wheel in Space (most likely) and The Abominable Snowmen (less likely). Just to get my foot in the door on that topic.
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