Forgiving the BBC

[thomgray]

When talking about missing Doctor Who episodes, I've noticed on several occasions (rarely in this forum, I hasten to add) how quick people are to blame the BBC for wiping tapes all those years ago. Some of the rants are very aggressive, going as far as demanding the BBC to go and retrieve the lost episodes themselves and do something right for a change.

Parking these caps-locked messages aside, I have to admit that while the BBC are not my number one favourite business, I certainly don't feel angry at them or feel the need to blame them for ruining 60s Doctor Who. Yes it's a shame episodes are missing, but culturally and socially the idea of junking old episodes of any TV series at a time when domestic video players were still being developed is perfectly understandable. Colour TV was on the horizon, repeats were a rarity and as a whole, post-war Britain was far more interested in the future than the past. It's really only since the baby boomers grew up that 'nostalgia' has become a marketable idea.

This theory of archiving everything in existence is brilliantly discussed in Simon Reynold's 2011 book Retromania. He discusses mainly how the music industry is obsessed with its own past and feels the need to curate everything about it (special editions, retrospectives, documentaries etc). He also points out that many 'conservation' organisations (such as the National Trust) were founded in the 20th century, highlighting how recent this obsession with the past began.

Thinking about post-war 60s Britain, the concept of archiving everything would seem preposterous. Also, in an era when rationing was still a recent event, reusing old tapes and making do with the limited storage space available is again very reasonable. Looking at these events with today's eyes and moaning how stupid the BBC workers were is ridiculous. They were just doing their job at a time that was culturally very different to ours.

So as much as I'd love to see Tenth Planet Part 4 as much as the next man, give the BBC a break. These things happened half a century ago. Forgiveness is a wonderful gift that benefits both sides of the conflict.

[richardwoods]

Hmmm........

[Andrew Dunn]

Don't post here too often but a good point I think.
Watching the DVD documentary 'television centre of the universe' recently I was reminded how much like a factory production line the BBC actually was.
Considering this and taking into account the fact that it was responsible to the public of the day for how it spent the lience fee money, the reuse of material resource its well understandable.
Actually got the chance to tour TV centre just before its closure and the tour guides made a point of stating how much of a production line it was, and having worked on production lines before they stop for no man (or virgin video tape!)

[George D]

Blame them

[scotttelfer]

Just imagine for a moment what would have happened if the BBC had been archiving at the time. Now imagine if the newspapers found out and had the same mind set they have today.

BEEB WASTING LICENSE FEE ON MATERIAL THAT WILL NEVER BE BROADCAST AGAIN!

Can you really blame them?

[RWels]

Well of course. The same thing happened to non-BBC shows (most noticeably The Avengers) and non-English shows even in thorough countries like Germany (West and East). And non-TV material, like some silent films that are now sorely missed such as London After Midnight.
What about plays? If you missed Sarah Bernhardt's performance in a play, then that was that. Perhaps in time it would be remounted. And that is exactly how TV shows were repeated in the 1950s when a lot were live television: By remaking them. You can go back with similar examples all the way to the lost books of Aristotle.

That said, the junking of the FILM still strikes me as a really bad and pointless decision.

[John W King]

I disagree. Only with hindsight was it a bad desciscion. I began recording the soundtrack of tv programmes on open reel tape in 1965. My recordings were direct line via a phono socket attached to the tv. The first Who episode I recorded was The Savages part 4. I recorded many Patrick Troughton episodes. Alas due the high expense of tape I had to wipe these tapes so they no longer exist. The only story I archived was the War Games. Then in 1980 I got a Video 2000 philips recorder. Quite quickly the format disappeared and I had to select what programmes I transferred to VHS.. Of the V2000 transfers the only ones in my archive are the Five Faces of Dr Who and most of the BSB Who weekend. VHS has gone so I've had to do more transfers to DVD. All my V2000 tapes and the majority of transferred have ended up in local tips. Why? I cannot afford the space to keep them. Nor, if I am honest, do I have the time to watch them. So in the 1960s you can imagine the dilemma the BBC faced. The only individual in the world that we know of who had them money and facilities to record TV programmes and stores them was dear old Bob Monkhouse. The great shame is he didn't record Doctor Who. So, no I don't blame the BBC and nor should anyone else.
......the only destroyed huge chunks of Dr Who forever........but then, if they hadn't this web site wouldn't exist!

[George D]

Wiping the original tapes i can accept the logic about the cost. However destroying the 16mm film there was no real benefit. They could have less supervisory about their destruction and turned the eye so they could end up with film collectors, charities , etc
In USA when distributors didn't need their old prints they would end up on the collector market. If the BBC let this happen most would exist today.

I have found that those who are the most paranoid about others having access to their copywrited work where they destroy all copies find their material lost forever

[andyeves]

Aug 6, 2016 19:27:16 GMT John W King said:

I began recording the soundtrack of tv programmes on open reel tape in 1965. My recordings were direct line via a phono socket attached to the tv. The first Who episode I recorded was The Savages part 4. I recorded many Patrick Troughton episodes. Alas due the high expense of tape I had to wipe these tapes so they no longer exist. 

Sorry John, but you're not forgiven either ...

[John W King]

Hahaha haha! It's really not about forgiveness. What on earth have I got to be forgiven about and who on earth are YOU to offer forgiveness? I only binned tapes of still existing material. The 60s Who soundtracks I wiped are now on cd. I was merely trying to highlight the reality of trying to keep a collection on a minimal wage and limited space. And the BBC were faced with a similar problem in the 60s.Your infantile comment offering ME forgiveness is what lowers the level of comment on this site. At least I have actually seen all bar a few of the missing 96. I try to share my memories on this site. Will I need forgiveness, if, God forbid, dementia wipes my memories?

[andyeves]

Aug 7, 2016 9:26:59 GMT John W King said:

Hahaha haha! It's really not about forgiveness. What on earth have I got to be forgiven about and who on earth are YOU to offer forgiveness? I only binned tapes of still existing material. The 60s Who soundtracks I wiped are now on cd. I was merely trying to highlight the reality of trying to keep a collection on a minimal wage and limited space. And the BBC were faced with a similar problem in the 60s.Your infantile comment offering ME forgiveness is what lowers the level of comment on this site. At least I have actually seen all bar a few of the missing 96. I try to share my memories on this site. Will I need forgiveness, if, God forbid, dementia wipes my memories?

LOL!  Maybe you should have realised it was a tongue-in-cheek comment and not to be taken too seriously?!?

[richardwoods]

Oh, this topic never fails to polarise the forum, LOL!

[Richard Marple]

It's a shame the BBC didn't pass any telerecordings onto a 3rd party when they thought there wasn't any outlet for them.

[tombeveridge]

I'm pretty sure Andy wasn't being accusatory, John.
You and I share remorse at the good stuff we've chucked out/taped over/recycled because of lack of space or (more important) cost of media. I cringe at the 60s/70s radio shows I cheerfully taped over to make way for other, newer performances. Today, "How could I have been so stupid?"
The Beeb was in the same position, only more so. As viewers in the 60s and 70s, we complained bitterly about the licence fee and even more bitterly about "repeats." Especially B/W repeats in the days of brilliant colour. I'm willing to accept that Auntie, with a fine Reithian regard for parsimony, felt it prudent to reuse their tapes. This, in an era where the wealth of talent to write, direct, design, and act new productions was so rich, to me at least, makes the decision to junk some older performances a reasonable economic decision. I won't even call it short-sighted because who could foretell, as the 60s ended, that there would be a time when we would each own a library of our favorite movies/TV shows (or have them readily available through some contraption called an internet? Back then, we thought 8-track players (and digital watches!) to be sophisticated.
So, for me, forgive...but let's not ever forget.

[John W King]

Thank you for your kind words Tom. Oh, Andy - I do have a sense of humour. Hence my laughter at the beginning of my last post. I can also I can be a windup merchant...
But seriously, we forget how different the '60s were. It wasn't just the cost that caused me to wipe recordings and the BBC was the same. There just wasn't enough magnetic tape. Several times I had to wait for fresh stocks of tape to come in. Open reel tape had a limited market and sometimes it came from the USA. That, in the 60s could take several weeks. The BBC were constantly making recordings. Video recording was still a new technology even in the late 60s. Most early programmes went out live so we have to be grateful Dr Who was recorded. That gives us some chance of recovering some of the 96
episodes.