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Post by John Green on Sept 28, 2015 23:53:32 GMT
Thanks,Paul A lot to think about there.
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Post by Darren Jones on Sept 28, 2015 23:57:50 GMT
Everyone, As you know, I don't usually comment publicly about Phil's search. It's his story to tell, but I'm glad he has thought this the right time to tell this part of it. I'll confirm a few things and I'm sure Phil won't mind. When I first examined 'The Web of Fear' films there were only five cans, but Phil was hopeful of securing the missing can. At the time, I didn't know the reasons why it never came back with the others, but as time went on it got more frustrating for Phil, not unreasonably as he was still trying to secure the film as late as a few months ago. I suspect the reason he is happy to talk about it now is that he has exhausted all avenues with the station involved. Phil never referred to the cans he had arranged to be sent back as 'missing episodes' to the people over there, but it was that precise phrasing the guy in the station used in an answer to Phil when he said he 'didn't know anything about these missing episodes'. Why would you say that unless you did in fact know only too well. My own theory is that the guy took a film off the pile so he could do a bit of research precisely because someone showed an interest in these old films. He picked any old film at random. It might just as well have been Web 1 or Enemy 3. Once he'd done his research, realised what he'd got, he snaffled it away and denied all knowledge of it when further enquiries were made as to its fate. My personal belief is that the film isn't in the hands of a private collector, but still hidden, or possibly destroyed to protect the person who took it. No evidence, no crime. Whatever happened, I don't think we'll be seeing it anytime soon. At the beginning of all of this, before Phil tracked the films down I told him that if he found anything, he'd be putting the films in danger. When something lies undisturbed for 40 or so years, it's safe. As soon as you change its circumstances, you change its fate. What happened to Web 3 is the perfect example of that fact. This situation is why I stopped updating the Africa Progress thread. Paul Well said.
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Post by George D on Sept 29, 2015 2:59:35 GMT
WHile we all wish web 3 was there, we're still very grateful for the remaining 9. Since Its out in the open, maybe pauls experience might be able to get him to hand it over Also, I don't know if the guy has been offered money and no consequences , but if such a motion would help, I'm sure many here Would chip in.
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Post by Paul McDermott on Sept 29, 2015 3:27:16 GMT
Appreciate the few extra details and thoughts from you Paul, given the position you have in all this relative to the majority of the audience here being like me, unconnected to the everyday practicalities of finds and restoration. I guess that's how it goes with archaeology - sometimes, being buried under the sand keeps things safer than if they get rediscovered and brought into the light. In the hunt for lost material, you still need a judicious amount of luck even after you've located something of significance in order to get a good outcome for the effort and intent of the search. Brings to mind the opening of Raiders Of The Lost Ark. Indy got out of the tunnel, defying poison darts, spikes, poisonous spiders, traitorous assistants and a rolling boulder - only to have Belloq take the golden idol out of his hand. Less glamorous as it may be, the search for lost film is probably just as rife with uncontrollable variables and the ever-present human factor. It was enough of a threat that it gave even the Daleks the shakes, so I'd not be surprised to see it complicate and frustrate the return of potentially viable missing prints - whether that's into the short or mid term, or even permanently. Against the odds, we got Enemy and Web back recently, less one ep. Publicly nailing down the odds to a fine degree seems to me to be opening up a sort of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. The more you publish on current work, the more you assist those who'd like to use those odds to ill effect. From memory, when the Americans stopped publishing in the atomic sciences during the war, the Russians (and others) had a fair notion that work was getting rather interesting and not so theoretical. Say nothing, and it's seen as significant. Say something to cover the ongoing sensitive efforts, and you'll get people eager to take offence that they're being mislead as a personal affront or use it to justify a scoop in the tabloids, regardless of the consequences. Say exactly what's going on, and you jeopardise the work as well as those out in the field doing it. You talk about the riddle of the Osirans, this has it beat 97 ways...
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Post by andyeves on Sept 29, 2015 4:23:18 GMT
Thanks Paul V. That should hopefully kill the speculation on whether Phil is telling the truth this time around ... I guess we should be grateful that he managed to get all-but-one of these missing episodes out of the country, despite his discovery effectively putting them in danger.
If he realised what he had, although he may want to destroy the evidence my gut feel is it is more likely that he'll still have it in the hope of one day cashing in, if indeed he hasn't already done so ... so maybe there is still hope.
I don't know whether this Nigerian guy has been offered financial inducements to return it, but it's interesting to know what kind of price one would be prepared to pay. For example, if someone held a missing episode and would only return it for £500K, would it be a price worth paying?!?
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Post by D. Frame on Sept 29, 2015 6:39:11 GMT
I really hope it hasn't been burnt. I know it's only a 40 ish. year old telly program but, so close. The irony of it being episode 3 of The Web of Fear and not episode 3 of The Enemy of the World. Isn't life funny.
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Post by John Green on Sept 29, 2015 8:31:36 GMT
I'm still quite keen on the idea of a renegade fan.After all,the episode synopsis reads in part "The Doctor is convinced there is a traitor in their midst"!
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Sept 29, 2015 10:27:57 GMT
(All IMVHO of course)
I would have thought that if the person who took it decided that they didn't want anything more to do with it then they'd have dropped it back off behind a filing cabinet or something so that it would look like it had been mislaid.
Most people like to keep their options open, so I expect it'll be in someone's home while they wonder what on earth to do with it. They'll probably be imagining to themselves that they have something of value here but have no idea how to realise that value. In those sort of circumstances people tend to sit on things until they can figure out what to do.
From our point of view, we know Web 3 existed 3 or 4 years ago. Like I said before, this puts it in a different league to all the other missing episodes.
Now that Phil has finished with his investigations, I am sure that other people with the time, money and motivation will be trying to do something about it. In fact, I'm sure that this will already have started, and if it is, in fact, Ian Levine who decides to pick up this particular baton, then I'd like to wish him all the best with his endeavours.
Richard
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Post by Stephen James Walker on Sept 29, 2015 12:10:14 GMT
Everyone, As you know, I don't usually comment publicly about Phil's search. It's his story to tell, but I'm glad he has thought this the right time to tell this part of it. I'll confirm a few things and I'm sure Phil won't mind. When I first examined 'The Web of Fear' films there were only five cans, but Phil was hopeful of securing the missing can. At the time, I didn't know the reasons why it never came back with the others, but as time went on it got more frustrating for Phil, not unreasonably as he was still trying to secure the film as late as a few months ago. I suspect the reason he is happy to talk about it now is that he has exhausted all avenues with the station involved. Phil never referred to the cans he had arranged to be sent back as 'missing episodes' to the people over there, but it was that precise phrasing the guy in the station used in an answer to Phil when he said he 'didn't know anything about these missing episodes'. Why would you say that unless you did in fact know only too well. My own theory is that the guy took a film off the pile so he could do a bit of research precisely because someone showed an interest in these old films. He picked any old film at random. It might just as well have been Web 1 or Enemy 3. Once he'd done his research, realised what he'd got, he snaffled it away and denied all knowledge of it when further enquiries were made as to its fate. My personal belief is that the film isn't in the hands of a private collector, but still hidden, or possibly destroyed to protect the person who took it. No evidence, no crime. Whatever happened, I don't think we'll be seeing it anytime soon. At the beginning of all of this, before Phil tracked the films down I told him that if he found anything, he'd be putting the films in danger. When something lies undisturbed for 40 or so years, it's safe. As soon as you change its circumstances, you change its fate. What happened to Web 3 is the perfect example of that fact. This situation is why I stopped updating the Africa Progress thread. Paul Many thanks for posting that, Paul. For what it's worth, I'm also sceptical of the idea that episode three is in the hands of a private collector. I've never believed the oft-repeated theory that there are private collectors hoarding missing episodes of DW, and in this particular case, if a private collector had effectively bribed someone at the Nigerian station to take episode three, why just that one and not any of the other nine missing episodes? The only way that would make sense to me is if the collector already had illicit copies of the other nine, which seems ludicrously unlikely.
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Post by stephenwit1 on Sept 29, 2015 12:30:52 GMT
This makes me mad. So close too.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Sept 29, 2015 12:33:51 GMT
Stephen j. Walker, i agree ! I find this tale a very tall one ! Just absurd !!!!
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Post by John Wall on Sept 29, 2015 12:34:39 GMT
I'm doubtful about hoarders, alhough there may be. Many of the episodes that have been recovered have come from people who didn't know that they had something important.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Sept 29, 2015 12:36:18 GMT
I'm doubtful about hoarders, alhough there may be. Many of the episodes that have been recovered have come from people who didn't know that they had something important. John, first it was NOT THERE ! NOW THIS I think we have been told not quiet the truth
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Post by John Wall on Sept 29, 2015 12:42:00 GMT
I'm doubtful about hoarders, alhough there may be. Many of the episodes that have been recovered have come from people who didn't know that they had something important. John, first it was NOT THERE ! NOW THIS I think we have been told not quiet the truth When, after six months negotiating, he went to collect the cans there were only eleven rather than the twelve he'd seen before.
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Post by Stephen James Walker on Sept 29, 2015 12:53:17 GMT
Stephen j. Walker, i agree ! I find this tale a very tall one ! Just absurd !!!! Just to be absolutely clear, I am certain Phil is telling the truth about episode three disappearing from the station after his initial find of the two missing stories. It is just his theory that it ended up in the hands of a private collector that I am sceptical about. I am usually considered a very optimistic person, but in this case, I'm afraid I'm rather pessimistic. I think the most likely scenario is that the episode was destroyed, either deliberately or by accident - through some mishap or, perhaps, in the subsequent fire at the station.
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