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Post by Brad Phipps on May 16, 2015 0:29:15 GMT
Well hopefully Paul the longer 71 edits will be retained for future use by some one else later on down the line, I was always interested in seeing the longer versions of episode 14 of Trial of a Time Lord but it was not used on the DVD box set when it was released. Still I hope the mentatlity has not become that since the classic series is now out on DVD we can junk all the material that was used to make the DVDs. Hi Bob, When we did the box set of 'Trial of a Time Lord', I ordered the one inch tapes from Windmill Road just before we got everything sent to 2e. Most of this material was dubbed off to digi-beta's and DVCam's. IIRC, because the tapes had been transferred, 2e then didn't want to add a further load of one-inch tapes to what was in storage, the cost of which had been quoted for the number sent from Windmill Road to them,and that didn't include the 'Trial' tapes. I ended up looking after the tapes myself. I just couldn't bring myself to skip them, so I still have them here somewhere, including the 71, 72 and 74 edits of 'Trial' episode 14. The TX version was the 73X and that one-inch tape has now been junked. Paul What happened to the digi-beta copies? Do they still exist or were they junked too? I would imagine it easier to find a digibeta deck these days than a 1-inch deck… (I have 5 digibeta decks at my work. Hardly get used much these days, mind…)
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Post by George D on May 16, 2015 1:29:21 GMT
What's the difference between the one inch and two inch tapes? If they are different , is there a back up of the one inch materIal?
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Post by Robbie Moubert on May 16, 2015 10:19:02 GMT
What's the difference between the one inch and two inch tapes? One inch! 2" (or Quad (because of the four record/play heads) was the original broadcast VT format. It was later superseded by 1"C (in the UK and US, 1"B was used in Europe), another reel-to-reel format. Apart from the width of the tape, the main difference was the way the signal was laid down. On 2" the signal was recorded across the tape, at 90 degrees to the direction of travel. 1"C used a helical (diagonal) scan. This gave the advantage of trick play facilities which were lacking on 2".
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Post by George D on May 16, 2015 12:39:42 GMT
I mean the content different between the one inch tape and Two inch tape.
With the destruction of the one inch, Richard thinks we lost the 71 edits
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Post by Ken Griffin on May 16, 2015 18:50:44 GMT
I mean the content different between the one inch tape and Two inch tape. I understand that the way it worked was that they used 2" up until the Five Doctors and then moved onto 1" for subsequent stories. There was no overlap.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on May 16, 2015 21:05:15 GMT
What happened to the digi-beta copies? Do they still exist or were they junked too? I would imagine it easier to find a digibeta deck these days than a 1-inch deck… Hi Brad, The digi's are with Peter Crocker I think. A one-inch machine is fairly easy to come by. It's getting the parts that can be a little tricky. Paul
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Post by George D on May 16, 2015 21:39:18 GMT
While the original one inch is regrettably destroyed, I'm curious how much of the 71 edits are backed up in a decent quality?
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Post by Ken Griffin on May 17, 2015 8:28:36 GMT
While the original one inch is regrettably destroyed, I'm curious how much of the 71 edits are backed up in a decent quality? If you read Paul's posts, you'll see that none of the 1" tapes (apart from the transmission tapes) have been destroyed.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on May 17, 2015 9:15:44 GMT
I understand that the way it worked was that they used 2" up until the Five Doctors and then moved onto 1" for subsequent stories. There was no overlap. Actually, there was an overlap in the use of Quad in shows that were otherwise mostly one-inch, for example, 'Resurrection of the Daleks' where a lot of the archive material was transferred to Quad. It must have been subsequently dubbed off to one-inch for the edit. This is no big surprise and is usual around the time of a change in format. If you read Paul's posts, you'll see that none of the 1" tapes (apart from the transmission tapes) have been destroyed. Actually, let's be clear that I'm only talking about the tapes that were still retained when Windmill Road shut down. Lots of tapes were lost before that, including all of 'The Two Doctors', 'Ghost Light' etc... But people shouldn't moan about it; few companies actually keep their rushes and then it's usually documentaries where footage can be used as stockshots. Paul
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Post by George D on May 17, 2015 16:01:44 GMT
I appreciate the input that Paul is supplying.
While the loss of any troughton footage is completely undesirable, the biggest concern to me is the later jnt years.
Many of those seasons were only 14 episodes with stories edited down so they fit into 2-3 26 minute parts making them difficult to enjoy.
Any footage that would make them better I'm hopeful is preserved.
At this time, knowing the track record of current destuction it would be wise to make broadcast quality backup of anything still remaining. Especially from the 5 doctors.
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Post by Brad Phipps on May 22, 2015 8:54:18 GMT
This was a list I made ages ago. No idea how accurate it is now. 71, 72 etc down the left refers to what version it is.
Season 10
71 - Carnival of Monsters 2 71 - Frontier in Space 5 71 - The Green Death 5
Season 11
71 - Invasion of the Dinosaurs 3
Season 16
71 - The Stones of Blood 2
Season 17
71 - The Creature from the Pit 3 Studio tape - Shada 1 Studio tape - Shada 2 Studio tape - Shada 3 Studio tape - Shada 4 Studio tape - Shada 5 Studio tape - Shada 6
Season 18
71 - Warrior's Gate 2
Season 20
71 - The Five Doctors
Season 21
71 - Resurrection of the Daleks 2 (25 min) 73 - Resurrection of the Daleks 1 (50 min) 73 - Resurrection of the Daleks 2 (50 min)
Season 22 (plus 25 minute versions exist)
71 - The Two Doctors 2 71 - Revelation of the Daleks 1
Season 23
71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 1 71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 2 71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 3 71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 4 71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 5 71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 6 71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 7 72 - The Trial of a Time Lord 7 71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 9 72 - The Trial of a Time Lord 9 71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 10 71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 11 71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 12 71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 13 71 - The Trial of a Time Lord 14 72 - The Trial of a Time Lord 14 74 - The Trial of a Time Lord 14
Season 24
71 - Time and the Rani 1 71 - Time and the Rani 2 71 - Time and the Rani 3 71 - Time and the Rani 4 71 - Paradise Towers 1 71 - Paradise Towers 2 71 - Paradise Towers 3 71 - Paradise Towers 4 71 - Delta and the Bannerman 1 71 - Delta and the Bannerman 2 72 - Delta and the Bannermen 2 71 - Delta and the Bannerman 3 71 - Dragonfire 1 71 - Dragonfire 2 71 - Dragonfire 3
season 25
71 - Remembrance of the Daleks 1 71 - Remembrance of the Daleks 2 71 - Remembrance of the Daleks 3 71 - Remembrance of the Daleks 4 71 - The Happiness Patrol 1 72 - The Happiness Patrol 1 71 - The Happiness Patrol 2 71 - The Happiness Patrol 3 72 - The Happiness Patrol 3 71 - Silver Nemesis 1 71 - Silver Nemesis 2 71 - Silver Nemesis 3 72 - Silver Nemesis 3 71 - The Greatest Show in the Galaxy 1 71 - The Greatest Show in the Galaxy 2 71 - The Greatest Show in the Galaxy 3
Season 26
71 - Battlefield 1 71 - Battlefield 2 71 - Battlefield 3 71 - Battlefield 4 71 - The Curse of Fenric 1 71 - The Curse of Fenric 2 71 - The Curse of Fenric 3 71 - The Curse of Fenric 4 71 - Survival 1 71 - Survival 2 71 - Survival 3
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Post by Richard Marple on May 22, 2015 12:01:22 GMT
I remember DWM had a very good feature on all the surviving material, which was the 1st time I heard of 71 edits.
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Post by George D on May 22, 2015 12:46:47 GMT
I think they switched from 2 inch to one inch for 5 dr.
If I'm understanding correctly, I'm wondering if the masters for everything past the 5 Dr's had been destroyed. What may exists in rt backup, I don't know.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on May 23, 2015 10:33:35 GMT
I think they switched from 2 inch to one inch for 5 dr. If I'm understanding correctly, I'm wondering if the masters for everything past the 5 Dr's had been destroyed. What may exists in rt backup, I don't know. Hi, 'The Five Doctors' was the last to be made entirely on Quad, although one-inch was used in the edit. When I did the special edition 12 years later, we used quad, D3, D5, D1 and digi-beta for the edit! Post 'The Five Doctors', all the material Brad listed survived until at least 3 years ago and everything listed for 'Trial of a Time Lord' I have, including some studio material and effects passes. The 71's are also on digi-beta. 'The Curse of Fenric' was used for the special edition and there are certainly digital dubs outside of the Worldwide archive, including 'Happiness Patrol' and possibly 'Battlefield'. There may be others. As previously mentioned, I don't think anything has been 'lost' yet. Paul
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Post by scotttelfer on May 31, 2015 23:28:41 GMT
Out of interest, does this relate to the actual footage or just the original version of it? I know the BBC have been actively digitising their archives since 2000, I wonder if they've reached a point where they have made their copies so are now ditching the originals.
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