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Post by George D on Nov 30, 2014 19:55:09 GMT
gallifreybase.com/w/index.php/New_ChainsAs I read, it looks to me as it says "Episodes aired several times on a regional basis" And fate of prints unknown. Perhaps this might be something our canadian friends might have success with.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Dec 1, 2014 0:58:37 GMT
That text seems misleading. They only aired once in any market. Read the CBC page, it would provide more information. There was only one print, which most likely never left Toronto. Almost every station across the station aired it simultaneously. Stations in the Atlantic time zone would have aired it live from a Microwave feed from Toronto. One hour later it would have gone out to the rest of the nation, where it would have been recorded to video at a special facility out west, which was used to time delay it up to 3 hours for some stations. The video tape would have been reused with days. It's possible that some affiliates recorded to video for broadcast later. I really have to think that much of Jon's evidence of very different broadcast dates was simply erroneous information published in contemporary TV listings. Something that I remember was very common, particularly for CBC affiliates in the 1970s. It wasn't unusual when I was a kid for the TV listings showing the CBC network station in Ottawa and the CBC affiliate in Kingston airing two different episodes of something, but when you turned the TV on, they both showed the same thing. If any Doctor Who from the 1960s survived at CBC, they would have been the tens of thousands of films that CBC shipped from Toronto to the National Archives in the early 1980s, when they were cleaning out. Those films were indexed 30 years ago, and there's nothing there. Any CBC facilities in Toronto from the 1960s have long since closed, so no chance of anything left behind. The films were likely sent back to BBC Enterprises Toronto office back in 1965. What BBC did with the films is the real story. Though there are various reports of BBC in Toronto being searched multiple times in the 1980s (and providing a lot of the NTSC colour Pertwees), so presumably if there was any 1960s films in their 1980s storage facility (which still exists, it's a private company - though they weren't in business in the 1960s), they would have come to light then. It's a huge dead end. And one we've discussed in detail here more than once. See: missingepisodes.proboards.com/thread/6914/bbc-torontomissingepisodes.proboards.com/thread/3532/hypothetical-situationmissingepisodes.proboards.com/thread/4301/seasons-3-4-north-america |
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Post by tombeveridge on Dec 1, 2014 3:14:38 GMT
I recall that there was a post on this forum, some years ago, from a member who reported seeing "Marco Polo" THREE times, once in Britain and then twice more, after the family emigrated to Canada. The second time was in the eastern part of the country (I think) and then the third time in British Columbia. My memory may be playing tricks especially with regard to the geography involved and, if so, I apologise to all, but I don't remember anyone at the time questioning the veracity of the report If it was a true account, then "Marco Polo" was aired in at least two quite distinct time slots in Canada.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Dec 1, 2014 3:24:52 GMT
AIUI, DW aired on the same dates from January to July 1965 in all the regions that carried it. There was then a very short run of repeats in some of the provinces, starting in August. I'm still following up accessing TV listings for those.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Dec 1, 2014 6:33:33 GMT
Jon, I've never seen any airings after July 2, 1965 (the lack of any evidence of a single station airing it after the original run, makes me suspect that no affiliates were airing it far outside of the main network timeslot, and any suggestion otherwise (such as CFCR) is likely only an indication of them missing the episode in the early listings ... or simply skipping episodes. Which certainly isn't as surprising as it sounds if you grew up watching a CBC affiliate!
(we differentiate between CBC network and CBC affiliate stations - more so back then than now. Affiliates are privately owned, often in smaller centres, and only have to carry some of the network feed (typically at certain defined hours of the day) while the network-owned stations are typically in the larger cities, and carry virtually the same programming, other than local news, and timeslots specifically set aside for regional programming). CBC seldom thought of the broadcasts as being on a provincial basis. (other than perhaps provinces with only a single station!)
That isn't to say that an affiliate couldn't have held on and delayed airing something. Many, if not most, had the ability to put the network feed to videotape for later transmission. I just can't see them bothering for such a low-profile show, that by the spring, it was clear the CBC was burning off. I doubt very much anything was on distributed on film outside of Toronto.
Is there an example of what have you seen for August 1965? Perhaps I can put it in perspective, or dig into some online databases that you might not have a subscription into. I'm fascinated at what this may be! Could there have been a short summer repeat season we've all forgotten? Though if this is on anything other than primary CBC stations like Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Vancouver, Halifax, etc., I'd be very surprised, and very interested. And if it's on CKVR (Barrie) then that could be very interesting indeed.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Dec 1, 2014 9:00:49 GMT
The CBC pages are under going an overhaul.
We've got two sets of newspaper TV listings for different channels showing DW on all the dates it should be on, but then continuing beyond 3 July five nights a week right up until 16 July. We're still checking to see whether there are any more regions like that.
Okay, it's possible that that many pre-emptions pushed the schedules out by two weeks, but are as many as ten pre-emptions likely on two different stations??
It's also possible that these are printing errors, but could such an error continue on a daily basis for two whole weeks in two different papers?
We're still researching another set of listings that hint at screenings into August.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Dec 1, 2014 12:54:11 GMT
Which regions? I've seen no trace of this in central Canada, which covers the main network, and half-a-dozen major affiliates. And I've realized that the OCR on the Toronto Star now works well enough, that the period of time there are airings, sticks out like a sore thumb. (of interest is the number of Z Cars airings on CHCH - that's a program we don't understand.)
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Post by Kelly Davies on Dec 1, 2014 15:51:36 GMT
It just seems like this story came to Canada but didnt leave. I think they are here somewhere, its a matter of somehow picking up the trail. Its probably unlikely but dismissing it out of hand is a sure way to miss something.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Dec 1, 2014 16:42:21 GMT
Whose dismissing it out of hand? I've spent many hours in libraries from Toronto to Vancouver going through microfilm over the last 20 years, following up leads that even I think are very improbable. All for naught ... and I'll be back in the library again if there's even the most remote possibility to check. I've already spent a couple of hours last night scouring several on-line sources for any hints of any July 3 to August 31, 1965 broadcasts, that may have been missed. And all I've got to show for it is more Forest Rangers, Cannonball, and Z Cars airings ...
And that's knowing that even if we can find evidence of further broadcasts, it's unlikely to lead to any film. As far as I know, the National Archives is slowly working through the mountains of paper that CBC had in storage for decades ... maybe one day we'll get to see where they sent the film ... though it's hard to imagine it went anywhere further than a few blocks down the street to BBC Enterprises in Toronto.
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Post by lousingh on Dec 4, 2014 23:32:57 GMT
Whose dismissing it out of hand? I've spent many hours in libraries from Toronto to Vancouver going through microfilm over the last 20 years, following up leads that even I think are very improbable. All for naught ... and I'll be back in the library again if there's even the most remote possibility to check. I've already spent a couple of hours last night scouring several on-line sources for any hints of any July 3 to August 31, 1965 broadcasts, that may have been missed. And all I've got to show for it is more Forest Rangers, Cannonball, and Z Cars airings ... And that's knowing that even if we can find evidence of further broadcasts, it's unlikely to lead to any film. As far as I know, the National Archives is slowly working through the mountains of paper that CBC had in storage for decades ... maybe one day we'll get to see where they sent the film ... though it's hard to imagine it went anywhere further than a few blocks down the street to BBC Enterprises in Toronto. If you're there, I would try and backtrack the tapes that were sent from Vancouver to Toronto in 1985. You would need to backtrack them from who should have sent them to the BBC Enterprises office in Toronto. My friend Dan and I had negotiated for months with a Toronto station that had Doctor Who (IIRC the colour Inferno was recovered from them) to get other tapes they had. Maybe there is something there. Additionally, if you can get the guy who has that really good colour copy of Terror of the Autons to release it, that would be keen too. |
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Dec 5, 2014 4:32:53 GMT
Not sure how that helps. There's lots of documentation of tapes flying around between private station CKVU in Vancouver and BBC in Toronto in the 1980s.
How does that help figure out what happened between CBC in Toronto and BBC in Toronto in the 1960s?
A systematic search of the CBC paperwork in the archives in Ottawa might yield something ... but that probably still wouldn't tell us what BBC did with the films in Toronto after they got back (presuming that's where they went). We know CBC didn't retain the prints (as their 20,000 film cans all sit in the national archives, well indexed). So CBC either destroyed, sent down the street to BBC, or shipped to somewhere strange. It's pretty easy to guess where the films went, given it was likely easier to transport them a few blocks than destroy them. It's the BBC paperwork that would be interesting. Presumably long destroyed ...
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Post by James Anderson on Mar 3, 2015 10:15:56 GMT
Not sure how that helps. There's lots of documentation of tapes flying around between private station CKVU in Vancouver and BBC in Toronto in the 1980s. How does that help figure out what happened between CBC in Toronto and BBC in Toronto in the 1960s? A systematic search of the CBC paperwork in the archives in Ottawa might yield something ... but that probably still wouldn't tell us what BBC did with the films in Toronto after they got back (presuming that's where they went). We know CBC didn't retain the prints (as their 20,000 film cans all sit in the national archives, well indexed). So CBC either destroyed, sent down the street to BBC, or shipped to somewhere strange. It's pretty easy to guess where the films went, given it was likely easier to transport them a few blocks than destroy them. It's the BBC paperwork that would be interesting. Presumably long destroyed ... The BBC destroyed the paperwork that's why we have so many episodes missing. I think it was a BBC policy back then to Destroy the paperwork along with the episodes |
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Mar 4, 2015 2:34:36 GMT
The BBC destroyed the paperwork that's why we have so many episodes missing. I think it was a BBC policy back then to Destroy the paperwork along with the episodes I don't think we have any idea what happened to the BBC Toronto paperwork. Though perhaps Richard does. I think you are stretching here. |
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Post by John W King on Mar 6, 2015 21:19:38 GMT
Slightly off thread but is there any significance in the fact that Doctor Who Magazine are currently on part 2 of a detailed article about the production of Marco Polo? (Part 1 in last month's issue, part 3 in next month's issue?
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Post by George D on Mar 6, 2015 23:10:40 GMT
im happy they are still including info on classic who. Hopefully the younger generation sees it and desires an interest in the hartnell era.
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