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Post by Paul Edwards on Nov 10, 2014 11:34:44 GMT
Good question Richard. Assuming current state of play re extant episodes, and assuming complete stories must exist: 1. Mind of Evil (What DW does really well: Earth-based sci-fi allowing for the beginnings of exploring ethical issues) 2. The Sensorites (seriously! It has lots of running around in caves/corridors, villains who are not, and was probably the first story about not judging a book by its cover) 3. Talons of Weng Chiang (Jago/Lightfoot; pseudo-historical; Mr Sin -- all of the elements of the best of 1970s DW) If they were all available: 1. Fury from the Deep (the quintessential base under siege / possession story; has all of the best elements of Season 5 in one story; possibly the best ever companion departure); 2. Mind of Evil (as above); 3. The Savages (in lieu of the Sensorites, for the same reasons) Disclaimer: Fury from the Deep is my personal fave, so my rationale may be biased  |
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Post by mattplace on Nov 10, 2014 12:02:48 GMT
Genesis of the daleks i would show to someone to let them see just how excellent Dr Who can be, that is not just for kids...
As for the question of quintissential Who... The Ark in Space.. great story, confined setting great performances and a monster that looks like its made from bubblewrap...
Yet Noah acts the sh#t out of that bubblewrap hand....
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Post by richardwoods on Nov 10, 2014 12:48:19 GMT
If it's one and one only, then I would have to go for Web, surprise surprise, |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2014 16:28:14 GMT
Tomb Of The Cybermen, Spearhead From Space, The Ark In Space. Three quintessential stories for me. They contain a lot of the mystery, magic and other ingredients in the right proportions in a single story and maybe illustrate what makes Dr. Who the special programme it is. Having said that, there are many more which are among my all time favourites which you maybe couldn't call quintessential in any way as they aren't typical (e.g. Mind Of Evil).
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Post by shellyharman67 on Nov 10, 2014 18:00:52 GMT
Tomb Of The Cybermen, Spearhead From Space, The Ark In Space. Three quintessential stories for me. They contain a lot of the mystery, magic and other ingredients in the right proportions in a single story and maybe illustrate what makes Dr. Who the special programme it is. Having said that, there are many more which are among my all time favourites which you maybe couldn't call quintessential in any way as they aren't typical (e.g. Mind Of Evil). Ark in space is so underrated ! I agree with you laurence. Spearhead of course was the biggest defining moment as we said goodbye to B/W with War Games......... |
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Richard Develyn
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Post by Richard Develyn on Nov 10, 2014 22:01:39 GMT
I think it's an interesting reflection of the tastes and opinions of this forum that apart from one mention for City of Death and Caves of Androzani everything else has been pre Talons of Weng Chiang.
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Post by lousingh on Nov 10, 2014 23:30:56 GMT
The difficulty in answering this question is separating your favourite story from the one you think is the best example of the program. My only problem with Genesis as a flagship story is that it's a bit grim - it's missing that dry humour that you get in the other really good stories (from all eras). The stories to either side of Genesis had that humour in, funnily enough (excuse the pun), though they're arguably weaker stories. I also like to think of this question as "what story would you like to tell Steven Moffat - can you make the new series more like this!" I agree with this. There is no way I would put, say, The Three Doctors here because it is so atypical. Part of the answer to this question is what do you think are the criteria for Quintessential Doctor Who is. I almost have to narrow it down by negative characteristics as well as positive ones. No pretensions of being great art. Nothing that gets the Sarah Jane Shippers blood humming. Not unremittingly grim. Not too silly. Good cliffhangers. Good characters. Nothing terribly divisive. Decent adversary - preferably a monster. Watchable at all ages. Prefer the background for the series being typical (e.g., not stranded on Earth). Representative of the overall quality of the series rather than an all-time great. Sadly, the perfect story by those criteria is so damnably bigoted that I can't watch it any more let alone recommend it: The Talons of Weng-Chiang. My mom is Chinese; I never got over John Bennett with make-up let alone how average Chinese were portrayed. Normally, I give stories "of the era" a pass, but this one gets on my nerves more and more as I get older. I am going to go with State of Decay. The hand puppet vampire is hilarious, how the ship's trajectory is handled is risible, Adric is in it, and the episodes under-run a couple of minutes, but it feels like it is representative of the first 26 years of DW. Now, if we want a representative slice of different eras, then I can play a few games here. |
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Richard Develyn
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Post by Richard Develyn on Nov 11, 2014 11:12:11 GMT
That's a really interesting post not least because it highlights a flaw in my original question (apart from mis-spelling quintessential). I wasn't really after a good "average" story for the series - i.e. one which best represents Doctor Who with all of its strengths and failings. What I'm after is the story which *you* think represents Doctor Who as it should be. This is still different to your favourite story, because your favourite could easily be one where Doctor Who went off at a tangent. The story I want is the one that you would want to give a new producer of the show, who had never watched Doctor Who, with the instructions "make a show which resembles this!"
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 13:49:29 GMT
Interesting thread and topic, Richard! I'll put in a defense for Weng Chiang here though. Aside from the issue of John Bennett taking on the role (which I think he's very good in), the perception of Chinese people depicted in that story is more to do with (and a comment on) the common perception in Victorian times and the popular Penny Dreadful type "pulp" fiction of that era. I think the producers knew what they were doing there and the story is full of parody with its lifting from other fiction and movie chestnuts. I like the story lots for it's atmosphere and grittiness - despite the awful rat, for which I always brace myself for a wince, when I know it's coming (it could have been suggested in a more subtle way by means of careful camera shots, choices of cutting etc.). It's not quite quintessential DW though, I don't think.  |
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Post by johnforbes on Nov 11, 2014 15:15:53 GMT
Genesis of the Daleks, hands down.
It's got Tom, it's got the Daleks and Davros, it's got the Time Lords, it's got ethical questions (if the Dr hadn't dithered with the ethics of killing the Daleks they'd be gone), plus its got a great story and great acting .
It is not in the least bit surprising that many even on this board regard it as possibly THE best quintissential Dr Who story ever made.
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Post by Patrick Coles on Nov 11, 2014 15:48:52 GMT
Tom's not the "be all & end all" by a long way - the show had enjoyed over TEN years as a much loved 'British institution' long before Tom Baker ever put on a long scarf !
'Genesis' rehashes a number of story aspects/ideas from William Hartnell days plus really sees The Daleks first get relegated to just little more than Davros backing group (something they sadly never later escaped from being in the classic show - at least The Shadows also had their own hits minus Cliff Richard !) in many ways 'Genesis' marks the end of The Daleks as their own foes....
While The Time Lords idea took much of the 'Who' out of 'Doctor Who' robbing the show of alot of it's enigmatic aspect re the mysterious space/time traveller so again that's not necessarily a plus point for the show overall.
As definitive 'Dr.Who' I would consider stories more like; 'The Daleks', 'Dalek Invasion of Eath' (both tales' aspects copied & alluded too repeatedly later in Dalek stories), 'The Faceless Ones','Evil of The Daleks' (likewise), ''The Web of Fear', 'Inferno', 'The Ambassadors of Death', 'Planet of Evil', 'The Seeds of Doom', 'The Caves of Androzani', and 'Vengeance on Varos'
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Post by Tony Ingram on Nov 11, 2014 16:57:27 GMT
I've actually never counted either Genesis or Androzani among my favourites. I know they're popular, and they're certainly very well done, but both stories to me are severely lacking in the humour element that I consider an essential part of Doctor Who.
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Post by johnforbes on Nov 11, 2014 17:13:03 GMT
Tom's not the "be all & end all" by a long way - the show had enjoyed over TEN years as a much loved 'British institution' long before Tom Baker ever put on a long scarf ! 'Genesis' rehashes a number of story aspects/ideas from William Hartnell days plus really sees The Daleks first get relegated to just little more than Davros backing group (something they sadly never later escaped from being in the classic show - at least The Shadows also had their own hits minus Cliff Richard !) in many ways 'Genesis' marks the end of The Daleks as their own foes.... While The Time Lords idea took much of the 'Who' out of 'Doctor Who' robbing the show of alot of it's enigmatic aspect re the mysterious space/time traveller so again that's not necessarily a plus point for the show overall. As definitive 'Dr.Who' I would consider stories more like; 'The Daleks', 'Dalek Invasion of Eath' (both tales' aspects copied & alluded too repeatedly later in Dalek stories), 'The Faceless Ones','Evil of The Daleks' (likewise), ''The Web of Fear', 'Inferno', 'The Ambassadors of Death', 'Planet of Evil', 'The Seeds of Doom', 'The Caves of Androzani', and 'Vengeance on Varos' Tom may not be the be all and the end all, .... but ..... of all the Dr's in the classic run, he had, by far, the largest average viewing figures throughout his whole run. In contrast, Troughton, who many think of with regards to "Monsters" and "bases under siege", had the worst other than McCoy. As for GOTD, it lends itself (intentionally by the way) more towards WW2 and Hitler, esp with its genocidal and maniacal ruler themes. And to be honest, the Daleks NEEDED to be shown having a "higher up" since it's laughable that a creature so weak and vulnerable could house itself in such a casing, and GOTD did that background more than adequately. FWIW IMO Davros is a far more superior and worthy foe for the Dr than the Daleks ever will be. |
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Post by richardwoods on Nov 11, 2014 17:43:18 GMT
[quote source="/post/125969/thread" timestamp="1415720932" author=" Patrick Coles"In contrast, Troughton, who many think of with regards to "Monsters" and "bases under siege", had the worst other than McCoy. Ratings do not necessarily equal quality or indeed indicate quintessential Who. City of Death had, if I recall correctly the highest ever ratings for the programme due to the ITV strike and wasn't the greatest serial. |
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Post by Tony Ingram on Nov 11, 2014 18:35:04 GMT
[quote source="/post/125969/thread" timestamp="1415720932" author=" Patrick Coles"In contrast, Troughton, who many think of with regards to "Monsters" and "bases under siege", had the worst other than McCoy. Ratings do not necessarily equal quality or indeed indicate quintessential Who. City of Death had, if I recall correctly the highest ever ratings for the programme due to the ITV strike and wasn't the greatest serial. It was pretty good, though. |
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