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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Sept 4, 2014 11:03:43 GMT
We really need a different thread for this - we're getting off subject, but, just quickly.... ""1966............Miming on Top of the Pops (and other BBC programmes with musical performances) is banned. Subsequent performances feature re-recordings of the backing tracks, with all musicians who appeared on the recording having to appear on the show. This was intended to protect work for musicians, but also meant that being an MU member was effective a pre-requisite for appearing on Top of the Pops."" (from the Musicians Union site) Notes (me):- 1) Why is ITV not mentioned? Similar agreements were made with the ITV companies, I believe. 2) Partial re-recordings were all that were necessary. This was almost always the case with 're-recorded' songs. 3) There was an allowance for Equity members to perform, assuredly. And Equity members by and large seemed to sing live with TOTP orchestra backing. |
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Post by robchapman on Sept 4, 2014 12:44:43 GMT
Fascinating topic and I agree it needs a new thread - although funnily enough I'm not aware that Nick Drake ever had a band so theoretically this is still on topic! -
Coincidentally, the last time I was scribbling with a pencil at the BBC Caversham archive the person sitting at the desk behind me was Martin Cloonan who runs the excellent MU archive site that was linked. Its a fascinating site, the research is ongoing and I recommend it to anyone who has an interest in these matters.
My two pennyworth for what its worth is that I remember the Everlasting Love 'scandal' really well. The News of The World in particular tried to drum up controversy. The listening public remained splendidly indifferent and continued to buy The Love Affairs excellent records in droves. Outside of a few diehard music critics and other obsessives most people don't give a toss about authenticity or who played on a record.
.........lights blue touch paper. stands back. searches menu in vain for appropriate emoticon
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 19:33:27 GMT
Here's a new thread for it then!  |
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Post by John Green on Sept 4, 2014 21:43:05 GMT
I remember on a (Junior?) Points of View that a promo clip of the Monkees was aired,and the presenter (Robert Robinson?) pointed out that one of the guitarists
was strumming his tie,which was hanging down in front of the strings...
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Post by John Green on Sept 5, 2014 15:06:57 GMT
Is it still called miming when it's an instrumental number,or is that a silly question? I suppose the definition covers it,but I always think of the singer when someone says "They were miming".
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Post by Simon Mclean on Sept 6, 2014 20:25:12 GMT
Why is ITV not mentioned? Similar agreements were made with the ITV companies, I believe. Like TOTP, Ready Steady Go had its own orchestra, conducted by Les Reed - I don't think I've seen anything from this era, though. Does any exist in Dave Clark's collection? |
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Post by tombeveridge on Sept 7, 2014 4:04:49 GMT
I remember on a (Junior?) Points of View that a promo clip of the Monkees was aired,and the presenter (Robert Robinson?) pointed out that one of the guitarists was strumming his tie,which was hanging down in front of the strings... That would be Mike Nesmith and "Daydream Believer." |
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Post by Tony Walshaw on Sept 8, 2014 7:34:35 GMT
From the later 60s, stereo and a more involved musicianship was introduced. This moved on from the previous way of doing things, whereby an orchestra backed a singer or group. Or the group merely played their own instruments in a straightforward, R&B-influenced style.
'Pet Sounds' and 'Sgt Pepper' in particular brought a step change. The raw-edged playing of a young group member would no longer do, there was a risk of inferior-sounding records. Individual instruments began to play important parts in the song, and were not lost in a woolly backing, if indeed they had existed at all. Keyboards, horns, flutes were increasingly common.
Record producers began to prefer accomplished musicians who gave faultless performances. If these were existing group members, fine. If not, accomplished session players were used. Producers like Mickie Most had such a team of players, and so Nancy Sinatra could sound like Blue Mink and Herman’s Hermits like Hot Chocolate.
And then there was the frontline stars who could play most of the instruments on their records if they wanted to. Paul McCartney, Roy Wood, John Paul Jones & others. Eight-track (& more) recording was imminent and its utilisation by these musicians put the powerful whole of the orchestra under threat. Thus we had the classic late 60s sound as epitomised by the Keith Mansfield arrangements. Marmalade were the Love Affair and Dusty Springfield was Georgie Fame. They were all together in one Big Match. I wonder how much influence the MU had upon these records being made in the way that they were, and their members playing upon them?
All of this had a consequence that when promoted on TV, whether live or not, the 'performers' were not necessarily those who played on the record. E.g. the Love Affair seem to have performed 'Rainbow Valley' on TOTP with a Steve Ellis live vocal over the Johnny Pearson Orchestra. The other members of Love Affair were present to mime the guitar & drums etc that in reality had been done by session men.
I believe that visiting overseas stars were not allowed to bring their own musicians. Sammy Davis Jr sang on ‘Dee Time’ but with the house band, thereby MU members would have paid involvement in a domestic TV performance, which was what they strove for. But it was lost revenue for UK musicians if a self-contained group like Canned Heat played live on a BBC show. Being a down & dirty rock band, they required no orchestral backing whatsoever.
Though it would have been interesting if Johnny Pearson had approached Bob Hite on the 29th January 1970 TOTP and said “come on, come on, let’s work together....” 
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Post by williammcgregor on Sept 8, 2014 9:50:52 GMT
Keith Townshend MM interview from 14/11/70 in which he gives his views on the Musicians Union and TOTP... part 1 of interview  part 2  part 3  part 4  part 5  part 6  part 7   |
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Sept 10, 2014 9:33:32 GMT
Fantastic article, William.
I can - if I get uber-anorak - draw a flow chart about miming - the phrase 'is it live or is it Memorex' comes to mind - but it will take some time.
I do enjoy trying to spot if a performance is mimed or not, something myself and my Auntie used to do while watching TOTP in the 70's.
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Post by John Green on Sept 10, 2014 9:57:44 GMT
Funny how we didn't get articles each week in the 60s and 70s to the effect that the songs in 'Calamity Jane','The Wizard of Oz',etc. were mimed...
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Post by Alan Turrell on Sept 10, 2014 10:24:52 GMT
I wonder if the Tv show he's talking about "Two girls in Hampshire" still exists i can't seem to find any info about it .
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Sept 10, 2014 10:36:20 GMT
Funny how we didn't get articles each week in the 60s and 70s to the effect that the songs in 'Calamity Jane','The Wizard of Oz',etc. were mimed... Pretty much ALL the classic films, John, going back to the early days of talkies. It broke one of my ex's hearts to discover that the vocals for Edelweiss in the Sound of Music was mimed, and not even sung by Christopher Plummer. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 12:08:42 GMT
Ray said, "Pretty much ALL the classic films, John, going back to the early days of talkies."
True enough, but then again, Gary Busey and the others had to learn their instruments and then learn to play as a band so they could do the live soundtrack for The Buddy Holly Story.
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Post by Richard Marple on Sept 10, 2014 12:15:36 GMT
Marni Nixon made a living supplying vocals for actresses who had singing voices which were deemed unsuitable.
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