darcysmart
Member
"...Comes from an outside influence. Unless this old body of mine is wearing a bit thin."
Posts: 47 
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Post by darcysmart on Aug 10, 2014 4:34:20 GMT
I completely agree with you, on the assumption that the credits did look a bit dodgy on transmission.
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Post by johnbarbour on Aug 10, 2014 8:29:28 GMT
Interesting question. I've never really noticed and just assumed that cleaned up stories got clearer credits. I'm happy with cleaning up the originals 'cos as Darcy said some of them were a bit wobbly on transmission - unlike say colourisation of black & white stories but that's a different thread...(come to think of it according to family photos from the Sixties I was in B&W myself!)
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Post by Dave Wood on Aug 10, 2014 8:57:57 GMT
It's a difficult one. You've got to remember that the process of telerecording from VT introduces its own distortions to the picture, so the wobbly and flickery motion on many of the unrestored film prints isn't indicative of the original transmission anyway. The contrast is also way off on some of those recordings, so I expect that the restored white lettering on black from the DVD is far more representative of the original look than the murky light grey on mid-grey that we used to see in those old VHS releases.
I have to admit that I really like them and I feel that they are very sympathetically done. It's a good compromise in creating something that's legible (some of those film prints aren't) and in the right font and style. Those DVD credits are certainly far, far better than the unsympathetic captions that were used on the original VHS version of Seeds of Death, or those used on the 1980s overseas sales of The Web Planet.
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Post by steven g on Aug 10, 2014 11:44:53 GMT
I am quite happy that the restoration team have digitised the end credits because some of the episodes had some picture imperfections during the credits in the originals. As far as I know, it was the Evil Of The Daleks episode 2 which had the worst damage during the closing credits with a jump mid-scroll, which, if I remember correctly, also caused the music to jump too.
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Simon Collis
Member
I have started to dream of lost things
Posts: 536
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Post by Simon Collis on Aug 10, 2014 11:55:33 GMT
I'd even go a little further than that - I'd quite like to see the unrestored episodes as well. I'm keen on silent films and I will quite happily watch inferior copies that haven't been cleaned up, and for me that makes it a little bit more fun. Sure, I love my beautifully restored copy of Metropolis as well, but somehow watching something with tramlines, the odd skip, maybe a little bit of water damage here and there... for some reason that feels more authentic, more of a rush. I'm really not explaining this very well, but I'm sure some people will get the idea.
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Post by tombeveridge on Aug 10, 2014 13:04:57 GMT
With you on this, Simon! It's the same as the crackles on an old 78 record, but I can see why others would prefer a shiny silver disc.
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Post by Paul Edwards on Aug 10, 2014 13:05:54 GMT
I'd even go a little further than that - I'd quite like to see the unrestored episodes as well. I'm keen on silent films and I will quite happily watch inferior copies that haven't been cleaned up, and for me that makes it a little bit more fun. Sure, I love my beautifully restored copy of Metropolis as well, but somehow watching something with tramlines, the odd skip, maybe a little bit of water damage here and there... for some reason that feels more authentic, more of a rush. I'm really not explaining this very well, but I'm sure some people will get the idea. Simon, not sure if you've ever seen the movie "Decasia" by Bill Morrison, but if not, you might enjoy it. Trailer here (and I love the irony of it coming out on Blu-Ray). Cheers, Paul |
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Simon Collis
Member
I have started to dream of lost things
Posts: 536
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Post by Simon Collis on Aug 10, 2014 13:23:14 GMT
I'd even go a little further than that - I'd quite like to see the unrestored episodes as well. I'm keen on silent films and I will quite happily watch inferior copies that haven't been cleaned up, and for me that makes it a little bit more fun. Sure, I love my beautifully restored copy of Metropolis as well, but somehow watching something with tramlines, the odd skip, maybe a little bit of water damage here and there... for some reason that feels more authentic, more of a rush. I'm really not explaining this very well, but I'm sure some people will get the idea. Simon, not sure if you've ever seen the movie "Decasia" by Bill Morrison, but if not, you might enjoy it. Trailer here (and I love the irony of it coming out on Blu-Ray). Cheers, Paul Oh yes... do I ever want to see that! It's not on Netflix, sadly, and the DVDs are crazy expensive on Amazon (like £199 expensive), but the BluRay import isn't bad. Guess I know where some of my next payday is going, then... That trailer makes me think of so many things though... what's the boxer fighting? It could be the Nothing from the Never-ending Story, or it could be the energy blob from The Three Doctors... and is the laughing woman being exterminated by the Daleks? Maybe she's immune to their weapons, that's why she's laughing... Seriously though, thanks for that. |
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Post by John Green on Aug 10, 2014 14:35:16 GMT
Not so long ago,serious money was being paid to restore old comics.By "restore" I mean starting off with a tatty Detective Comics no.27,with half the cover missing,and ending up with a near-mint copy.Shades of Trigger's "I've replaced the handle twice,and the head once,but it's the original broom".Lately,the shift has been towards adoring the unrestored.Having said which,reprints of older comics tend to look awful because the paper's wrong,they've been recoloured,one misses out on the whole experience of reading the originals-no ads!No letters' pages!
For me,the best expression of the authentic 'warts and all' attitude was on the liner notes of Dylan's 'Basement Tapes',the phrase about how with some old Blues records you have to close your eyes and lean forward a little...and yet it turned out later that there were studio tracks (and overdubs?) on that most famous recorded-at-home-no-fancy-technical-tricks album.
I do like the idea of having as closely as we can the 'as broadcast' version as an option,though to truly repeat the original experience,I'd have to turn some episodes off after 10 minutes due to family pressure...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 15:37:53 GMT
The re-made end credits on the DW releases always jar with me, although the originals would have motion blur (which would also jar in a different way). The answer for me would be to dirty them up a bit, so they don't look so clinically pristine (the originals would have looked more "organic" and human, even though there would have been no motion blur as created by the t/r process).
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Post by johnbarbour on Aug 10, 2014 21:21:56 GMT
Interesting question. I've never really noticed and just assumed that cleaned up stories got clearer credits. I'm happy with cleaning up the originals 'cos as Darcy said some of them were a bit wobbly on transmission - unlike say colourisation of black & white stories but that's a different thread...(come to think of it according to family photos from the Sixties I was in B&W myself!) So you're happy with digitising them? "cleaning up the originals" means not replacing them and leaving them intact, no matter how wobbly they are. No- I inadvertently used "wobbly" instead of "dodgy" which was the description used by Darcy and re-quoted by me. I don't mind original credits being cleaned up (so far as they can be) but not digitised - or colourised (don't think I could support digitisation if I don't like the idea of colourisation though I've not seen one and not noticed the other so really just a principle). Either way my drafting is dodgy or wobbly!?! |
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Post by Alan Jeffries on Aug 10, 2014 21:22:48 GMT
How odd that I was talking about this with another fan just yesterday and when I log in this is here.
I have absolutely no problem with the credits being redone. I have no problem where a bit of wobble - Androzani springs to mind - is corrected or problem matt lines are reduced. This is I feel that these corrections actually take the production closer to how the producer/director would have wanted it to look in an ideal world, given enough budget and time.
The actual narrative of the episodes is unchanged and that is the important bit to me.
New special effects, no worries as we can still see the original as well.
I've said it before, I'm in a minority here, but I don't like vidfire. I would prefer the crisp film look. But I can watch episodes that have been restored to the Nth degree, so it's never really a problem to me.
Alan
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Simon Collis
Member
I have started to dream of lost things
Posts: 536
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Post by Simon Collis on Aug 10, 2014 21:24:46 GMT
The RT website says it was due to the duration of the shots of Barbara's face and lack of time for the 'Wheel Of Fortune', and I presume they weren't remade for 'The Lion' for the same reason. |
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Post by Brian Seaver on Aug 10, 2014 22:06:53 GMT
I prefer the original form, cleaned up of course. I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to things like this. But what really irks me is when they tinker around with the original "substandard" visual effects. Apparently they did this in The Pirate Planet to help "sell the effect better". Luckily the Doctor Who team didn't go as far as the Star Trek and Star Wars people did for some of their remastered DVD releases.
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Post by Angus H on Aug 11, 2014 23:43:34 GMT
The RT website says it was due to the duration of the shots of Barbara's face and lack of time for the 'Wheel Of Fortune', and I presume they weren't remade for 'The Lion' for the same reason. Yes, but just look at the DVD release of The Underwater Menace Episode 3. The original credits are retained and fade to the new digital credits as the picture fades to black. Not that I'm complaining, but the RT could have done that with The Wheel of Fortune. |
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