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Post by Darren Jones on Jun 17, 2014 21:12:10 GMT
The worrying thing is that there are probably similar lists of Big Players who suffer from piles. No need to make light of those we have lost and how they left us. |
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Post by John Green on Jun 17, 2014 21:37:36 GMT
The worrying thing is that there are probably similar lists of Big Players who suffer from piles. No need to make light of those we have lost and how they left us. Honestly no offence meant Darren,but we are seeing lists of men and women with their causes of death here,together with attempts to draw,at times moral/health lessons from their demise.I know that all the information is online,but it so easily leads to "Who's left/who's next" threads.Within days of Elizabeth Sladen dying,one or two were posting on Youtube and elsewhere that they believed that she smoked. These people have left behind friends and family.True they might have hastened their deaths by smoking,eating high-calorie foods,but I'm not very happy with discussions of this sort. |
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Post by John Green on Jun 17, 2014 22:02:45 GMT
Thanks,Darren.
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Post by Darren Jones on Jun 17, 2014 22:06:35 GMT
No need to make light of those we have lost and how they left us. Honestly no offence meant Darren,but we are seeing lists of men and women with their causes of death here,together with attempts to draw,at times moral/health lessons from their demise.I know that all the information is online,but it so easily leads to "Who's left/who's next" threads.Within days of Elizabeth Sladen dying,one or two were posting on Youtube and elsewhere that they believed that she smoked. These people have left behind friends and family.True they might have hastened their deaths by smoking,eating high-calorie foods,but I'm not very happy with discussions of this sort. No offence taken now that you've explained what you meant. I can see where you are coming from with the 'effect = cause' and making 2+2=734327! The fact that the people are famous means we try to make patterns when none are there and try to correlate similar instances. If they hadn't been famous then no one would've bothered. It was a different time though, with different standards, where smoking was accepted (I'm a smoker myself btw) inside and 'bad for you' foods was the norm. So people were more likely to (through lack of knowledge and/or ignorance) expose themselves to things that could harm them later in life. (Having said that, as a smoker myself, I'm not exactly one to preach about healthy living and making the right/wrong choices!) P.S. If I caused you offence then I apologise profusely John. |
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Post by John Green on Jun 17, 2014 22:19:47 GMT
That's kind of you,Darren.I'm actually more worried about coming across as holier-than-thou!
I very much respect people who can think coolly as you've done,and actually questioned their own initial reaction.I've probably put that badly.
I do prefer anonymised,generalised statements about lifestyles.We're never going to reduce deaths through smoking etc. unless we do look at the evidence of mortality rates,but I'm bothered when it's a named grand-dad or mum who's said to have caused his or her own death because of their behavior.This isn't to say that these same individuals weren't often self-critical of the amount they smoked,etc.
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Post by Darren Jones on Jun 17, 2014 23:41:41 GMT
That's kind of you,Darren.I'm actually more worried about coming across as holier-than-thou! I very much respect people who can think coolly as you've done,and actually questioned their own initial reaction.I've probably put that badly. I do prefer anonymised,generalised statements about lifestyles.We're never going to reduce deaths through smoking etc. unless we do look at the evidence of mortality rates,but I'm bothered when it's a named grand-dad or mum who's said to have caused his or her own death because of their behavior.This isn't to say that these same individuals weren't often self-critical of the amount they smoked,etc. You did not come across as 'holier-than-thou!' and I thank you for your comment. You did not put your last statement badly; in fact, it was quite erudite. I also know what you are saying; death is always easier when it's from afar (gathering statistics etc.). But once you get to named territory, it becomes more personal and difficult to separate the 'actor' from the 'person' (or just people who were alive and who you interacted with). |
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Post by John Green on Jun 18, 2014 0:52:56 GMT
Contrariwise,one thread-can't remember where it was-was entitled "Still with us"!
It's a difficult one.Is it right to say "I enjoy actor x's commentaries,so I hope serial y is found before he dies"? I know that one of my thoughts when Elizabeth Sladen died-as well as thinking of her family-was that I hoped that there were more that she'd recorded.Again,I could well imagine and hope that her family know in what high regard she was held.
That post of mine was heavy-handed 'humour'.Well,heavy-handed,certainly.
I can barely remember any malicious posts on this site,and I read just about every one.I really am impressed by that.
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Post by johnforbes on Jun 18, 2014 2:47:24 GMT
Fallout in the UK was far from minimal - there are reports in the press as recently as 2010 that sheep from upland areas like the Lake District were still being tested for radioactivity 24 years after Chernobyl exploded. The first indications in the west that there had been an incident was when the radiation plume set atmospheric radiation detectors off. You make it sound as though there was a large radioactive cloud hanging over Britain. Chernobyl is hundreds of km from the UK, by the time anything reached the UK (if at all) it will have been spread very thinly. As far as the UK is concerned I'd be pretty confident that normal radiation from the sun posed a bigger risk. Anyway, I'll leave the thread, it has nothing to do with DW anyway now. |
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Post by Brad Phipps on Jun 18, 2014 2:50:18 GMT
Contrariwise,one thread-can't remember where it was-was entitled "Still with us"! It's a difficult one.Is it right to say "I enjoy actor x's commentaries,so I hope serial y is found before he dies"? I know that one of my thoughts when Elizabeth Sladen died-as well as thinking of her family-was that I hoped that there were more that she'd recorded.Again,I could well imagine and hope that her family know in what high regard she was held. That post of mine was heavy-handed 'humour'.Well,heavy-handed,certainly. I can barely remember any malicious posts on this site,and I read just about every one.I really am impressed by that. It's fine to think like that. Everyone is sorry for the loss for their family and friends but there is always that thought in the back of your head about commentaries on DVD. I don't think anyone will think ill of anyone if they mention it, providing it's handled with respect and you indicate that's a secondary thought. |
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Post by Andrew Parker on Jun 18, 2014 9:10:50 GMT
Roy castle died because of working in places were people smoked ! Those words were from his family ! I guess smoking was big in those days ! And 2nd hand smoke more so. At the end of the day we all die from heart failure in the end  What I remember hearing from the news reports on his death was that Roy Castle played a trumpet in bars and jazz clubs that were filled with smoke. The sucking in of air to play the trumpet meant he took in a lot of second hand smoke, much more than most people would normally be exposed to. |
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Post by Peter Stirling on Jun 18, 2014 14:41:10 GMT
Roy castle died because of working in places were people smoked ! Those words were from his family ! I guess smoking was big in those days ! And 2nd hand smoke more so. At the end of the day we all die from heart failure in the end Frank Sinatra smoked two packs a day and worked in a lot of smokey clubs, he died aged 86 of bowel cancer. Rick Mayall gave up smoking and drinking almost 20 years ago and took to 'healthy' food. |
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Post by Martin Dunne on Jun 18, 2014 16:36:42 GMT
It's apparently revelatory to see it listed like this, but somewhat deceptive. With such little detail these two causes are pretty ubiquitous deaths. Hartnell had a series of strokes in his sixties, Camfield had his first known heart attack at 38. All deaths could be described as "heart attacks" as whatever the immediate cause, your heart stops. Any such list of contemporaries would give these two causes over and over.
Let's take American comic names ...
Jack Kirby (b. 1917, d. 1994) heart attack age 76 (probably due to smoking)
Joe Shuster (b. 1914, d. 1992) heart attack age 78 (hypertension)
Bill Finger (b. 1914, d. 1974) heart attack age 59 (although commonly referred to as alcoholism)
Mark Gruenwald (b. 1953, d. 1996) heart attack age 43 (congenital defect)
Gene Colan (b. 1926, d. 2011) cancer age 84 (complications due to cancer, liver disease)
Steve Gerber (b. 1947, d. 2008) lung disease age 60 (idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis)
Lee Falk (b. 1911, d. 1999) heart attack age 87
Try Jimmy Carter's cabinet for some gender balance ...
Edmund Muskie (b. 1914, d. 1996) heart attack age 81 (congestive heart failure)
G. William Miller (b. 1925, d. 2006) lung disease age 81 (idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis)(again)
Cyrus Vance (b. 1917, d. 2002) pneumonia, complications age 84 (Alzheimer's)
Patricia Roberts Harris (b. 1924, d. 1985) cancer age 60 (breast cancer)
Juanita M. Kreps (b. 1921, d. 2010) complications of Alzheimer's disease age 89
Griffin Bell (b. 1918, d. 2009) cancer age 90 (complications from pancreatic cancer)
Philip Klutznick (b. 1907, d. 1999) Alzheimer's disease age 92
James R. Schlesinger (b. 1929, d. 2014) complications from pneumonia age 85
... bit of a trend there with Steve Gerber and G. William Miller both having pulmonary fibrosis.
You could call all the Alzheimer's/complications "heart attacks" if you wanted to.
The rate of deaths due to radiation is highly contentious, the only way you could link a list as above to Chernobyl (1986) is if they were standing in the reactor when it blew its roof off. And if you wanted to get paranoid about cancer deaths from radiological accidents, no need to go this extremely tenuous route; Britain had a way more relevant one in the 1957 Windscale fire -- the uranium was set alight and only extinguished by the fire brigade forcing water through the reactor. If the original list was about a million times the size then you might have an argument you could attribute one cancer death to a radiation source, whether Windscale, Chernobyl, cosmic rays, bananas or just plain old background count. And that's in the most extreme analysis.
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Post by lousingh on Jun 18, 2014 22:29:57 GMT
Don't forget the artery-clogging fatty red meats that people ate with more artery-clogging fried foods.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Jun 19, 2014 7:06:23 GMT
Don't forget the artery-clogging fatty red meats that people ate with more artery-clogging fried foods. The fact is everybody dies of something, no death certificate ever says 'cause of death = death ' and the grim reaper does not give you brownie points for what food you eat or whether you run 4 miles a day. Jimmy Savile who was known for his fitness died of pneumonia. |
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Post by shellyharman67 on Jun 19, 2014 7:18:28 GMT
Dr who people seem to have spells where they pass away in close proximity to each other. Then thankfully it goes quiet. We must remember that it is half a century now, and health issues were not top priority then ! But sad whenever it happens........
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