www.missing-episodes.com - Fury from The Deep Search

www.missing-episodes.com
« Fury from The Deep Search »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
May 21, 2013, 10:33am

www.missing-episodes.com :: Active Forums :: Missing Episodes (Doctor Who) :: Fury from The Deep Search

« Page 3 of 4 » Jump to page Go

Author

Topic: Fury from The Deep Search (Read 8,739 times)

George D
Member

member is offline

Joined: Dec 2011
Gender: Male

Posts: 644

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #30 on Mar 9, 2012, 5:25am »

Why in the world would he be putting cue dots on the film? (rolls eyes)

« Last Edit: Mar 9, 2012, 5:35am by George D »

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Jon Preddle
Member

member is offline

Joined: May 2006
Gender: Male

Posts: 653
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #31 on Mar 9, 2012, 6:38am »

Mar 9, 2012, 4:58am, senkowski wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original broadcast masters would have been shelved and catalogued shortly after their original broadcasts, correct? Which means that the Fury film print exchange with an Adam Adamant episode happened most likely during a rerun broadcast, correct?

Now, I've got a really cool idea for you, if you co-ordinate the sequence of broadcasts for Adam Adamant and Fury From the Deep, back to the summer of 1968, you might be able to find the weekly program schedule of just which of those episodes ran together.

That episode of Adam Adamant wasn't repeated in the UK. If anything, the film was one that had been returned from overseas, but if so, AAL wasn't sold widely, if at all - certainly there is no clear evidence that it screened in Australia, and it certainly didn't in New Zealand - so the big question is, which country did it come back from?

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Richard Bignell
Member

member is offline

[avatar]

Joined: Jul 2003
Gender: Male

Posts: 1,151

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #32 on Mar 9, 2012, 7:47am »

The easiest way would be to look at Tony Williamson's writer's file at the BBC's Written Archive. That should show any overseas payments made for this particular episode.

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Nothing at the End of the Lane - The Magazine of Doctor Who Research and Restoration.
www.endofthelane.co.uk

JamesHyles
Member

member is offline

Joined: Dec 2012
Gender: Male

Posts: 33

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #33 on Mar 9, 2012, 11:23am »

Mar 9, 2012, 5:25am, George D wrote:

Why in the world would he be putting cue dots on the film? (rolls eyes)

Presumably in case any bootleg copies ever surfaced. It would be possible to prove if they were taken from these prints...

Some would interpret that as a security measure, others as vandalism.

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Steven Sigel
Member

member is offline

Joined: Jun 2003
Gender: Male

Posts: 760

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #34 on Mar 9, 2012, 3:28pm »

Cue dots on film are for the projectionist to know when to switch reels, or add commercials. They generally don't have anything to do with preventing bootlegs.

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

davidstead
Member

member is offline

[avatar]

Joined: Jan 2010
Gender: Male

Posts: 232

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #35 on Mar 9, 2012, 4:54pm »

The Cue Dots that Adam Lee had put on the Ice Warriors prints, were exactly for the reason of tracing bootleg copies. The 16mm dupe print copies that Ian Levine purchased from the BBC were marked in a similar way. It was to see if any bootlegs appeared and then trace them to either the library prints or the Levine ones.

This fact was never made public for that specific reason.

I have the released (marked)version, a copy of the Levine(marked)version and also a telecine tfr done prior to the marking process (all VHS), so Adam Lee's specific damaging can be proven. The telecine tfr I have kept secreted away for years, but it proves the prints were marked. - I knew it would be useful someday.

The Cue dots on the library Archival print of episode one appear around the time the ice warrior is being discovered in the Ice (nowhere near any reel change) - You may have noticed on some old prints of episodes, that the cue dots appear where they should (at the end of the credits).

I would class it as vandalism, rather than security measure. surely just marking Ian Levine's copies would have sufficed. Adam Lee is still the only Archive Selector to deliberately mark Archival master material (surely the whole point of something being an archive master is that is isn't ever damaged!!).

Hope that helps

Davidx

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Steven Sigel
Member

member is offline

Joined: Jun 2003
Gender: Male

Posts: 760

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #36 on Mar 9, 2012, 6:33pm »

I've never heard of anyone marking a print for that reason - doing that to a video copy, maybe, but to an original master print?? Wouldn't really be a "cue" mark at that point though. Cue marks are used for cuing.

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Jon Preddle
Member

member is offline

Joined: May 2006
Gender: Male

Posts: 653
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #37 on Mar 9, 2012, 10:33pm »

Mar 9, 2012, 4:54pm, davidstead wrote:

In what form do these cue dots appear? Are they little pin holes, or big 'slodges'? I've looked at my (possibly bootleg!) copy I got in the early 1990s, and can't see any markings...

Can you be a bit more precise with how to find and identify the marks, specifically a timecode and position (top, left...) on the screen?

thanks!

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

dennywilson
Member

member is offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 291

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #38 on Mar 10, 2012, 5:49am »

Mar 9, 2012, 4:54pm, davidstead wrote:

That's just insane.

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Brad Phipps
Member

member is offline

Joined: Jan 2012
Gender: Male

Posts: 632
Location: New Zealand

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #39 on Mar 10, 2012, 7:47am »

Mar 9, 2012, 10:33pm, Jon Preddle wrote:

Mar 9, 2012, 4:54pm, davidstead wrote:

The Cue Dots that Adam Lee had put on the Ice Warriors prints, were exactly for the reason of tracing bootleg copies.

I've looked at my (possibly bootleg!) copy I got in the early 1990s

Busted!

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Richard Bignell
Member

member is offline

[avatar]

Joined: Jul 2003
Gender: Male

Posts: 1,151

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #40 on Mar 10, 2012, 8:58am »

Mar 9, 2012, 10:33pm, Jon Preddle wrote:

In what form do these cue dots appear? Are they little pin holes, or big 'slodges'? I've looked at my (possibly bootleg!) copy I got in the early 1990s, and can't see any markings...

The very fuzzy copy I managed to source rather gave the game away. It had a "BBC F&VT Library" overlay on the picture in the top left hand corner!

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Nothing at the End of the Lane - The Magazine of Doctor Who Research and Restoration.
www.endofthelane.co.uk

davidstead
Member

member is offline

[avatar]

Joined: Jan 2010
Gender: Male

Posts: 232

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #41 on Mar 10, 2012, 11:24am »

I would have to check my copies for the relevant t/c's and I only know the exact positioning of the cue dots on the archive master, not Ian Levines copy, so it would take a while to locate on that one.
The cue dots are like largish polo mints and are around the top edge of the picture for a small number of frames, so not major damage people might say. However Archival master material shouldn't be deliberately damaged for any reason, should it?!

I am quite suprised by the number of 'BBC F & VT L' timecoded material that is on U-Tube. I have always avoided anything like that timecoded, both while working at and since leaving, the BBC. Timecoding on videotape material is much less obvious as to it's source, but timecoding on any material is usually an indicator that the material has leaked out from somewhere!

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Laurence Piper
Global Moderator

member is offline

Joined: Mar 2006
Gender: Male

Posts: 4,139
Location: Rediffusion region

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #42 on Mar 10, 2012, 1:12pm »

Mar 9, 2012, 4:54pm, davidstead wrote:

I would class it as vandalism, rather than security measure. surely just marking Ian Levine's copies would have sufficed. Adam Lee is still the only Archive Selector to deliberately mark Archival master material (surely the whole point of something being an archive master is that is isn't ever damaged!!).

Hope that helps

Davidx

I just keep hearing more and more about Adam Lee and it gets worse. A man who doesn't know the value of anything and should never have been put in custody of valuable archive material.

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

dennywilson
Member

member is offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 291

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #43 on Mar 11, 2012, 2:49am »

Mar 10, 2012, 1:12pm, Laurence Piper wrote:

I just keep hearing more and more about Adam Lee and it gets worse. A man who doesn't know the value of anything and should never have been put in custody of valuable archive material.

How long was he the "archive selector" for The BBC?

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

Ronnie McDevitt
Member

member is offline

Joined: Mar 2006
Gender: Male

Posts: 56

Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #44 on Mar 11, 2012, 9:27pm »

[quote David Stead -]`The Cue Dots that Adam Lee had put on the Ice Warriors prints, were exactly for the reason of tracing bootleg copies. The 16mm dupe print copies that Ian Levine purchased from the BBC were marked in a similar way. It was to see if any bootlegs appeared and then trace them to either the library prints or the Levine ones.'

David do you know what Adam Lees motives were for this? Presumably Ian Levine would have had to sign a disclosure before purchase stating the prints were for his private use. Was this an attempt to find out whether or not he was making copies for friends or merely to see if other copies had been sourced without permission?
At this time most b/w episodes could be acquired on VHS if you knew the right people and I recall it took a particularly long time for the Ice Warriors episodes to surface.
I always suspected due to the high number of pirate copies of DW going arround during this period there was a deliberate attempt to restrict the availability of these episodes after their recovery was announced.
Certainly prior to this I came by tapes of War Machines and Reign of Terror within weeks of their returns being made public.

« Last Edit: Mar 11, 2012, 9:28pm by Ronnie McDevitt »

Link to Post - Back to Top IP:

Logged

« Page 3 of 4 » Jump to page Go

Dog-Walking Service, Surrey UK
Click Here To Make This Board Ad-Free