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AuthorTopic: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in Germany (Read 38,706 times)
Rob Moss
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #210 on May 11, 2012, 8:29pm »

May 11, 2012, 5:08pm, John Andersen wrote:

May 11, 2012, 3:22am, Jon Preddle wrote:
Word has come in from ZDF confirming it no longer holds the prints of The Ice Warriors held back in 1968.

Sad but hardly unexpected....



Ah, hell. More bad luck. When you take into account cruel hoaxers and other disappointments over the years, I am starting to think we are cursed. :(



Yes, something we thought didn't exist has been shown not to exist.
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Jon Preddle
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #211 on May 12, 2012, 1:13am »

May 11, 2012, 4:13am, George D wrote:

Is there any paper trail to where they might have went?


No. All I have is that they no longer have them. Considering it was 44 years ago, I really didn't expect that they would.
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dennywilson
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #212 on May 12, 2012, 1:27am »
Guess it's on to the NEXT lead! :)
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George D
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #213 on May 12, 2012, 2:05am »
Can we get a more detailed answer please. Who specifically was contacted and their office. How were they contacted? How did they response. Was there a chance to question the person to find out how much research they actually did?

Granted the odds are very unlikely however we dont want another sierra leone. Some questioning is in order. Such as where are the archives(not just one if there are more than one.) Is there a chance they will work with a member of our team willing to help us with our search for missing episodes in general?

If there is currently not the opportunity, then put them in tickler file to check in every 6 months with a phone call to build relationship and discuss potential finds. Every once in a while you reach someone who is helpful.
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John Wall
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #214 on May 12, 2012, 8:34am »
It was a one in a million chance. What it has demonstrated is that there were other prints struck. AFAIK prior to the start of this thread no one was aware that the Germans had shown any interest. What should follow is consideration of any other overseas broadcasters who might have had viewing prints of 60s material.
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Ross Mann
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #215 on May 14, 2012, 11:22pm »
I know it's a long shot, but considering the ABC (Australia) used to "bicycle" and occasionally dupe thier prints (before the days of sattelite transmissions) could/would it be worth checking out the regional relay stations etc?? I used to live next door to the local seven network (prime as it's known where I am) station. They used to use thier studios for local productions (mostly news) not sure if there was an archive of any sorts, but it could be another avenue to look down??
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Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #216 on May 17, 2012, 11:31pm »
I know some are slightly bummed by this news, but honestly I find all this quite exciting. ZDF has confirmed that they did have at one point viewing copies. That gives us a history no one's really looked into and there's a load of other questions the recovery team will be asking besides "do you have them?".

I hope a detailed report can be made.

Question: Have any viewing prints of any serial ever been found?
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Greg H
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #217 on May 18, 2012, 6:44am »
If I understand it correctly, it is not always 100% clear where a given print originates from or where it has traveled (censor cuts outstanding), so in answer to your question I can offer a resounding maybe.
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Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #218 on May 18, 2012, 2:28pm »
I thought viewing prints were crafted to be at a different contrast than broadcast prints so that they can be viewed by the country, but not broadcasted. I thought it be easy to differentiate between the two?
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Steven Sigel
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #219 on May 18, 2012, 2:38pm »
In theory, a viewing print should have richer contrast than a broadcast print (broadcast prints look more gray/washed out if you just project them), but in practice, it's not really that simple, and oftentimes you can't really tell the difference.... Furthermore, at some point it stopped being an issue as broadcast equipment got better, they could run anything...

Sometimes also it's a question of terminology - they might just have duped a broadcast print to make a so-called "viewing print" because it was quicker, or more readily available than going back to the negative which might have been stored somewhere else etc...



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Greg H
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #220 on May 18, 2012, 3:33pm »
That was my understanding of it StevenS; the waters are somewhat murky on this, at least so far as I know.

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the origins of the Ice warriors episodes in the archive somewhat obscure, and also some of the other bits and pieces like the Dalek masterplan episodes 5 and 10. Could it even possibly be the case that the episodes of the Ice Warriors that turned up years ago are in fact the prints that were sent to Germany for viewing? I'm sure I am not the first person to wonder this.
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Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #221 on Jun 4, 2012, 4:15am »
I know that this is beating a dead horse: But will there be any sort of detailed synopsis of this lead? I'd like to know the specifics. If there are any.
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John Wall
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #222 on Jun 4, 2012, 8:30am »

Jun 4, 2012, 4:15am, Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy wrote:
I know that this is beating a dead horse: But will there be any sort of detailed synopsis of this lead? I'd like to know the specifics. If there are any.


Yeah, the Germans were asked, they checked, they didn't have them.
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adamjordan
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #223 on Jun 4, 2012, 10:24am »
The wording from Jon Preddle was that ZDF no longer held the prints of the Ice Warriors held back in 1968.

That tells us that the lead was a good one. ZDF confirm that they held prints of the Ice Warriors in 1968 and that they no longer hold them.

Whether they were returned to the BBC, were thrown out by ZDF, were stolen, bicycled on to other European stations, turned into doorstops we don't know.

When they were received and for how long they were held is not declared.

They might have held them until April 2012 when they dug them out and gave them back to the BBC. So technically they no longer hold them. Who knows?

But It is an exciting developmet in the world of missing episodes, not just for Dr Who. And I am sure that now the Africa search has come to an end that Paul, Steve et al shall be following up this avenue for possible viewing prints elsewhere.
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Richard Bignell
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Re: Ice Warriors possible viewing prints in German
« Reply #224 on Jun 4, 2012, 11:13am »
Sorry Adam, but it really is not "exciting" in the least and I don't expect anyone is going to be pursuing this avenue, as you suggest.

New potential markets would have been sent viewing copies of material all the time and normally, they would have been looked at within days or weeks of their arrival. If the programmes were not of interest, they would been returned as per the originators instructions, just as they were in this situation.

In this case, we're talking about prints that were sent over back in 1968 - within a few months of the story's original transmission. They weren't accepted so there was really no genuine likelihood that ZDF would still have them in their possession 44 years later.
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