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Post by garyfreeman on Sept 2, 2012 11:26:44 GMT
Here's a short story , slightly off topic, but with a passing similarity to last years Jean Genie gem. Its shows how things can oh so easily go wrong and how totally brilliant John Hensalls actions were. (btw no names are used here to protect the guility)
A few months ago i placed a message on the missing radio section of this site asking it anybody had a taped copy of the BEACH BOYS session recorded for Saturday club from 1964. Sadly as I expected, it got no replies. Fast forward a few months and I am in that not quite asleep but nearly there mode listening to BBC late night jock do his thing , when he plays, albeit with a fair degree of talking over the intro, a beach boys track called hushabye. to the trained ear this version was totally different to the recorded track. After the track had finished the dj explained that this was from a 47 year old bbc session. I BOLTED UPRIGHT and started to get in touch with the bbc jock and sure enough dialogue commenced. It turned out that the dj did indeed have a cd of the saturday club session that was sent in out of the blue by a listener The reproduction is absolutely stunning . Recorded by direct line to a reel to reel. Its beautiful. the dj informed me that he didnt want to return it to the bbc because they has destoyed it in the first place but thought that EMI and the beach boys should have copies.
I let the Beach boys know what was going on and they were very happy that the session had been found and was indeed missing from there own archive and could i arrange for them to recieve a copy. There was not enough tracks to warrant a live at the BBC type disc but they could maybe, use a track as a bonus on a forthcoming boxed set. The owner of the tape would be given credit on the boxed sets booklet and be treated as a vip to the next beach boys uk gig (september).
At first all was going well but over the weekend the beach boys received a mail from the tape owner asking for them to make a SENSIBLE / NOT EMBARRASING cash offer for the tape.
I'm not so nieve to know that this this type of thing does not go on, im just dissapointed to know that true fans will now never hear the tracks (brother records/emi will flatly refuse to pay for anything of this nature i am told) biut this also goes on to prove what an absolute star JOHN HENSHALL was/is.
Did i say short story? sorry guys. somebody will ask the admin guy to move it to radio anyway.
REGARDS
Gary
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Post by Rob Moss on Sept 2, 2012 12:13:53 GMT
I agree, it's massively frustrating that people are like this, but on the other hand, looking from the owner's point of view, you can perhaps see that the record company is likely to make an amount of money from releasing the recordings, and they just want a cut. Still very selfish though.
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Post by John Green on Sept 2, 2012 13:50:38 GMT
Well.playing devil's advocate:
(1)Someone had the gumption to record this in the first place.
(2)They've looked after it for dozens of years,but haven't exploited it via bootlegs.
(3)Archivists and librarians who didn't do their job properly got a salary,and sometimes a fat corporate pension.
(3)Its release will,indeed,make money for lots of people.
(4)Offering a reward/bounty would probably lead to much more material being returned,much of which will otherwise deteriorate/get skipped.
And yes,I echo that "Thanks!" to John Henshall!
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Post by Neil Megson on Sept 3, 2012 8:19:22 GMT
Slightly confused by this - if the BBC radio DJ has a CD copy, isn't that effectively the same as having the original tape ? As the recording itself (as opposed to the songs) would be BBC copyright, why doesn't the DJ just place it back in the archive ? Or was the returned CD just a sample of the complete session ?
As it has now been re-broadcast, presumably there's a chance it was recorded off-air for a second time, and is now being circulated unofficially.
Which DJ was it ? And which station ?
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Post by garyfreeman on Sept 3, 2012 10:32:27 GMT
the bbc Radio dj has a complete cd copy of the session (exculding studio patter) but has openly stated that he will not put this back into the bbc archive as they destroyed the original session and he completely disagrees with the wiping policy. There was only one track played from the session and the dj talked over the opening 15 seconds or so (very clever) making it impossible for anybody to use.
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Post by Rob Moss on Sept 3, 2012 11:19:34 GMT
So it's not just the guy who recorded it who is being an arse, it's the DJ as well..? If only someone at the sound archives would have a word with his boss.
I'm not a legal expert, but I wonder whether there was any sort of clearance process that should have been followed in order for this performance to be repeated..? Or can a DJ just play a clip from an old BBC show without permission..?
Was the DJ not willing to pass on a copy to the record company, by the way..?
Gary, it might be worthwhile naming and shaming the DJ - he's clearly not working in the best interests of his employers!
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Post by Neil Megson on Sept 3, 2012 11:24:29 GMT
the bbc Radio dj has a complete cd copy of the session (exculding studio patter) but has openly stated that he will not put this back into the bbc archive as they destroyed the original session and he completely disagrees with the wiping policy. Sorry, I misunderstood the original post slightly - I thought the original taper was refusing the return to the archives. So will Geoff Barker be playing any more from this session on his Radio Devon show in the near future ? |
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Post by John Green on Sept 3, 2012 11:56:04 GMT
Brings to mind the time a U.S. radio station played the unreleased Dylan performances from the Bangladesh concert,the alternate night.Though that was a mistake,it seems.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 12:31:37 GMT
Well.playing devil's advocate: (1)Someone had the gumption to record this in the first place. (2)They've looked after it for dozens of years,but haven't exploited it via bootlegs. (3)Archivists and librarians who didn't do their job properly got a salary,and sometimes a fat corporate pension. (3)Its release will,indeed,make money for lots of people. (4)Offering a reward/bounty would probably lead to much more material being returned,much of which will otherwise deteriorate/get skipped. And yes,I echo that "Thanks!" to John Henshall! Some very valid points made here and it centres around the thorny issue of cash changing hands. John Henshall is to be commended for eternity for his archive and opening it up, being co-operative, keen to see it screened and returned. I do remember John saying he was paying something like over £150 per month for the storage space containing his tapes. Multiply that by several years alone and it's clear that John has paid an absolute fortune to archive that material and we're very fortunate that John's a genuinely great guy. But does that make others who, unlike John, want cash for their rarities "bad" guys? Earlier this Summer we saw the instance of the episode of "A Whole Scene Going" being bought by Tim Disney after it was withdrawn from eBay so Tim was able to ensure it would be properly archived and a copy returned to the BBC - the seller expressed the wish that a copy be returned as part of the eBay deal which resulted in much scorn and derision. I myself am paying ever increasing fees for storage space to keep my personal archive (no, there is no lost TV or anything... it's all personal recordings from over my life) and have so far paid over £3,000 for the privilege so they remain safe and sound until I finally have the space so I can reclaim it and access it again. It's only natural then for people to want some recompense for returning items that the BBC got rid of years ago. We've been down this road many times as to whether the BBC should be spending our licence fees on buying back archive material but given the lousy quality of what they produce these days, I have no objection to them buying back pieces of our heritage IF we can get to see them. I understand the BBC are planning to put it's archive online and we'll be able to watch whatever we like for a fee. I kind of think that's cheeky considering it was our money that paid for the shows to be made in the first place BUT if they actually use the monies raised to buy back lost items which we can then access as part of the online archive then surely it's a win-win situation? I firmly believe if the BBC did offer a finders fee then we would see a whole load of material creep out of the woodwork. It's obvious there is still plenty out there... more material keeps turning up each year. It is absolutely VITAL this issue is sorted out sooner than later because the longer it's left, the higher the chance the videotapes or film recordings will get damaged or eventually unplayable, so surely it makes sense to get back everything humanly possible whilst it's still playable? Look at the Pink Floyd TOTP tape. The biggest tragedy there was it didn't surface a few years earlier when it would had been possible to get a better playback. We were VERY lucky to get what we did from it since I doubt that tape can ever be played again so that was recovered just in time, otherwise, it would had been lost forever. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 17:27:01 GMT
'The Jean Genie' and the recent pristeen clip of '5:15' aren't back in the archives though unfortunately. Chris Perry confirmed this here missingepisodes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=totp&action=display&thread=7502The good thing about John Henshall is the fact he's let the full performance be aired on a number of occasions on television and has shown it both at Kaleidoscope and BFI events also. When broadcast quality performances like these turn up, and especially such important ones, I cannot understand why the BBC aren't willing to pay a pretty nice lump sum (or a cut of any profits) for the return of these as they would most certainly generate a good bit of income for them and someone like John Henshall surely deserves a cash reward for saving such a treasure. It could also entice others with valuable footage to come forward and return more lost treasures. |
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Sept 3, 2012 21:36:01 GMT
More so, Mike, as John barely earnt any money for two months what with the work he did re the Jean Genie.
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Post by Thomas Walsh on Sept 4, 2012 0:26:55 GMT
The BBC want clips returned for nowt....full stop..!! Is this right? Well a lot of people might think yeah they own it they should have it. Fair enough. But in the case of the 'California Man' TOTP clip of 'The Move' being found in BBC Scotland and returned, compilers wanted to include the clip as a DVD/CD ROM extra on the re-master of The Move's album 'Message from the country'. The BBC said ok. £10,000 should cover it. For ONE clip. Of 'THE MOVE'. This kind of incident is making people do what this gentleman has done with the Beach Boys session. John Henshall is a truly wonderful man but was a long time BBC employee. There was a loyalty there that is to be commended. If John was a collector and had the Bowie clip we'd be praying for YouTube's intervention.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 0:37:02 GMT
I'm not sure the BBC would charge £10,000 for a 3min clip, more like £1,500 surely?
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Post by Thomas Walsh on Sept 4, 2012 1:53:44 GMT
It's what I was told Mike. My source may have got it wrong but that's what I was told.
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Post by markg on Sept 4, 2012 8:50:46 GMT
I'd have thought if the price was £1.5K, they'd have gone "OK" and paid it..
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