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Post by Rob Moss on Jan 20, 2012 10:25:55 GMT
Yes I tried to delete the whole thread as appeared irrelevant and seemed to be going nowhere. Ended up with just deleting a post. Apologies Ray as you know about it - can you confirm Canal has it in colour? as there were obviously many versions in B/W at the time. 39 episodes I believe? Peter, can I ask why you felt it necessary to delete the thread, rather than just closing it..?
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Post by Peter Stirling on Jan 20, 2012 10:47:00 GMT
Peter, can I ask why you felt it necessary to delete the thread, rather than just closing it..? Hi Rob I thought I had started a thread about something that was already a known quantity. Obviously Kaleidoscope get loads of messages about prints here and there -and most of them Kal already know about or know where the superior versions are- so I did not want to clog up the system so to speak. As for closing the thread I think that can only be done by the Administrators? and would have probably confused the issue even more?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2012 11:21:21 GMT
I've retitled the thread now, Peter. It seemed to be inviting interesting posts in response. So rather than delete, it's been "redirected"!
The ABC archive (and what actually is in it) has always interested me personally. As far as I know, it has not been properly catalogued either.
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Post by markandresen on Jan 20, 2012 11:29:52 GMT
They misconstrued there, didn't they Ray? Sounds like you weren't asking for copies, just their status. I get those kind of replies...
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Jan 20, 2012 11:33:44 GMT
It's annoying.
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Post by Christopher Perry on Jan 20, 2012 17:41:12 GMT
Hi Ray
No they were telling you the truth.
The Fremantle system has lots of ABC titles on there because they still retain stills and in some cases paperwork proving ownership.
But they keep virtually nil ABC material. I have cross-checked many many entries to verify its not there lol.
Daft as a Brush isn't held by StudioCanal or Thames, its held by us. It was found on an old Cv2000 tape in the 1990s and transferred by Thames engineers for us.
Vacant Lot was made in 1967 before the franchise merge was even confirmed, so its unlikely Thames would have retained any. It has gone sadly.
As for the more general point about the ABC archive - Studio Canal do claim it is totally catalogued and has no surprises, but the lists they sent me did not contain items I knew existed. And then last year they told the BFI they had found 39 eps of Overseas Press Club!
Unfortunately, since John Herron was forced to retire and all the archive staff were fired, and replaced by a satellite team operation from Pathe, there is no longer a Studio Canal archivist. The archive manager, based in London, refuses to grant us access to the archive on the grounds it's all been catalogued so we are wasting our time! lol.
Anyway, Journey has always been there, and in colour, since 1990 when I first visited Pinewood.
c
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Jan 21, 2012 2:06:39 GMT
Hi Ray No they were telling you the truth. The Fremantle system has lots of ABC titles on there because they still retain stills and in some cases paperwork proving ownership. But they keep virtually nil ABC material. I have cross-checked many many entries to verify its not there lol. Daft as a Brush isn't held by StudioCanal or Thames, its held by us. It was found on an old Cv2000 tape in the 1990s and transferred by Thames engineers for us. Vacant Lot was made in 1967 before the franchise merge was even confirmed, so its unlikely Thames would have retained any. It has gone sadly. As for the more general point about the ABC archive - Studio Canal do claim it is totally catalogued and has no surprises, but the lists they sent me did not contain items I knew existed. And then last year they told the BFI they had found 39 eps of Overseas Press Club! Unfortunately, since John Herron was forced to retire and all the archive staff were fired, and replaced by a satellite team operation from Pathe, there is no longer a Studio Canal archivist. The archive manager, based in London, refuses to grant us access to the archive on the grounds it's all been catalogued so we are wasting our time! lol. Anyway, Journey has always been there, and in colour, since 1990 when I first visited Pinewood. c Hi CP, I wasn't doubting they were telling me the truth (I had enquired before re some other titles), it's just annoying that they had to answer my question like that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2012 9:36:30 GMT
Thanks for answering the general point about the ABC archive cataloguing, Chris. We can probably draw what conclusions we like about Canal's comments, I guess. 2:06am, Ray! You stay up too many long hours researching!
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Post by Peter Stirling on Jan 21, 2012 10:17:04 GMT
Thanks Chris and Lawrence. I always had a sneaking suspicion that 'Journey of a Lifetime' had been made in colour and it was only the print on sale this week that confirmed it. Although an old TV Times did show it on a later repeat run with the colour star beside it.
In the early 1960s ABC were very enthusiastic about the French SECAM system and presumbly needed material to work with? They took vans around the country with colour TV demos. Finding some colour SECAM videotapes would be very interesting indeed I would have thought?
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Post by John Green on Jan 21, 2012 10:51:27 GMT
I's still in the dark,of course. Does this mean that a closedown religious documentary series-or at least one episode-was hawked around to schools,Mormon meeting halls,etc. for cine shows? If so,is this a possible new source for finding missing-though slightly boring-material? Any way of telling if natural history/religious shows might have been retitled and repackaged for 8mm distribution?Apologies if I've got it all wrong. The archive story sounds worryingly like the Hulton Picture Library dramatization of a few years ago.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Jan 21, 2012 13:57:50 GMT
I's still in the dark,of course. Does this mean that a closedown religious documentary series-or at least one episode-was hawked around to schools,Mormon meeting halls,etc. for cine shows? If so,is this a possible new source for finding missing-though slightly boring-material? Any way of telling if natural history/religious shows might have been retitled and repackaged for 8mm distribution?Apologies if I've got it all wrong. The archive story sounds worryingly like the Hulton Picture Library dramatization of a few years ago. No JG. Journey of a Lifetime was a tea time Sunday Night series that only went into the closedown hour during repeat runs. Obviously had to have a religious message because of its slot and the requirements of broadcasters by law at the time. Dont know if it was boring or not, but certainly not a droning religious monologue as it was classed as a drama and had a plot. The travalog scenery certainly makes it of some interest today especially with the turmoil that has gone on in that region since. After the TV run, probably some groups thought certain eps suited their message and so it went into hired out territory?
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Jan 23, 2012 8:53:43 GMT
Thanks for answering the general point about the ABC archive cataloguing, Chris. We can probably draw what conclusions we like about Canal's comments, I guess. 2:06am, Ray! You stay up too many long hours researching! I wish I did - it's mainly the fact I suffer from occasional insomnia!
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Post by John Green on Mar 6, 2021 21:26:42 GMT
Hi Ray No they were telling you the truth. The Fremantle system has lots of ABC titles on there because they still retain stills and in some cases paperwork proving ownership. But they keep virtually nil ABC material. I have cross-checked many many entries to verify its not there lol. Daft as a Brush isn't held by StudioCanal or Thames, its held by us. It was found on an old Cv2000 tape in the 1990s and transferred by Thames engineers for us. Vacant Lot was made in 1967 before the franchise merge was even confirmed, so its unlikely Thames would have retained any. It has gone sadly. As for the more general point about the ABC archive - Studio Canal do claim it is totally catalogued and has no surprises, but the lists they sent me did not contain items I knew existed. And then last year they told the BFI they had found 39 eps of Overseas Press Club! Unfortunately, since John Herron was forced to retire and all the archive staff were fired, and replaced by a satellite team operation from Pathe, there is no longer a Studio Canal archivist. The archive manager, based in London, refuses to grant us access to the archive on the grounds it's all been catalogued so we are wasting our time! lol. Anyway, Journey has always been there, and in colour, since 1990 when I first visited Pinewood. c Network have recently streamed, and released on DVD. ABC material listed as missing. Frustrating, but it does suggest that there might be a lot more where that came from. Added: Despite their saying that they had 39 episodes of Overseas Press Club, only 13 seem to have been made, all of which are on the Network DVD.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Mar 7, 2021 1:03:04 GMT
Despite their saying that they had 39 episodes of Overseas Press Club, only 13 seem to have been made, all of which are on the Network DVD. Talking Pictures TV has recently been showing it but don't know how many episodes they go through.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Mar 7, 2021 11:46:46 GMT
Network have recently streamed, and released on DVD. ABC material listed as missing. Frustrating, but it does suggest that there might be a lot more where that came from. Added: Despite their saying that they had 39 episodes of Overseas Press Club, only 13 seem to have been made, all of which are on the Network DVD. I think that it's worth saying clearly here that the ABC archive (which we all referred to as the EMI-Elstree library back in the 80's and is now owned by Canal+ who bought it from Jerry Weintraub) is a private archive and always has been. Like any other archive, they are entitled to deal with enquiries any way they wish, subject of course to data protection rules regarding content and commercial confidentiality concerns. In short, they aren't obliged to cooperate with anyone undertaking research into lost television, particularly when those requests are so wide reaching that they are difficult to resolve without tying up resources that don't benefit the business. Having worked on cleaning up some ABC titles for Network, I have to say that whilst there were many 'surprises' in there, they weren't really genuine surprises at all, but a predictable consequence of a well catalogued archive vs lack of knowledge of that archive with part-time researchers. Many assumptions have been made since people got interested in archive television and many of these assumptions have come from a frustration about access or in most cases a frustration of knowledge. I think that relying on any database about the archival status of television programmes of any age, when that database is founded on shaky research, a lack of knowledge and/or assumptions about archival status is not recommended. They are not reliable sources of research. It would help if instead of assumptions being made, a simple statement of 'Archival status unknown' is allocated to any title with an uncertain status. At least then those with a passing interest in the subject, or genuine researchers wouldn't be sent down a rabbit hole. A few years ago, members of this forum traduced another member who had decided to sell some of his prints on EBay and they missed out on getting them. One opined that a precious film had been "lost to the nation", as if somehow it parting company with one private collector and becoming part of a different collection was any different to him acquiring it. But as I pointed out to him, all the programmes the member was selling existed in official archives; one of them had been copied by the BFI, donated by the seller, the others all existed in the archives of Canal+. Of course, they didn't know that because they were relying on incorrect information on an online database and didn't do their own research. Paul
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