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AuthorTopic: The junked Six Film Library episodes? (Read 4,773 times)
Tom Dewar
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The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Thread Started on Jun 9, 2012, 4:59pm »
Hi
Just been looking up on info for the Dr Who missing episodes, and apparently the BBC Film Library once held 53 episodes- " but six episodes had either been junked or went missing."

Out of curiosity's sake, does anyone know which they were?

I've heard that Episode 4 of the Daleks Masterplan never showed up, along with Blue Peter's copy of the final part of the Tenth Planet.

Also, I once read that the Power of the Daleks Episode 6 print had once been held, but somehow was junked.

So that's 3? But which others were lost?

Sorry for my lack of knowledge on the subject but I would like to know for sure

Thanks,

Tom
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craigrothwell
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #1 on Jun 9, 2012, 7:14pm »
Found this via google, seems correct:

There should have been 53 episodes in the Film Library. At various times before 1972, it had been in possession of - but had junked - the following material: 16mm film copies of ‘The Crusade’ part 1 and ‘The Ice Warriors’ part 3, and 35mm film copies of ‘The Celestial Toymaker’ part 2 (plus film sequences and trailer), ‘The Power of the Daleks’ part 6 (plus film sequences) and ‘The Wheel in Space’ part 5. Then in 1973, the children’s magazine programme ‘Blue Peter’ ran a feature on the tenth anniversary of ‘Doctor Who’. Many clips were chosen for the feature, including one from the only episode of ‘The Dalek Masterplan’ that the Film Library held - episode 4. After a clip from this episode was used (Katarina’s death scene), the 16mm print was due to be returned to the Film Library, but appears never to have made it back. The Film Library sent memos out to the person who had ordered the episodes for ‘Blue Peter’ (an individual by the suspicious-sounding name of J. Smith!!), reminding them that the print was overdue, but it was never returned. It was the only episode unaccounted for in 1978, when as inspection of the Film Library’s catalogue took place.
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George D
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #2 on Jun 10, 2012, 4:38am »
Is there any story behind power 6?
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stevendoig
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #3 on Jun 10, 2012, 8:10am »
Its all well covered in 'wiped'

J Smith is snot a suspicious name.
Power six and wheel 5 were destroyed.
The celstial toymaker was probably just an extract rather than a full episode
the crusade and ice warriors were destroyed.
The only real misplaced episode is masterplan 4
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George D
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #4 on Jun 10, 2012, 1:33pm »
What was the reason the film prints were destroyed. I thought being in the film archive they were safer.
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Greg H
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #5 on Jun 10, 2012, 3:16pm »

Jun 10, 2012, 1:33pm, George D wrote:
What was the reason the film prints were destroyed. I thought being in the film archive they were safer.


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Daniel O'Brien
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #6 on Jun 10, 2012, 3:39pm »

Jun 10, 2012, 1:33pm, George D wrote:
What was the reason the film prints were destroyed. I thought being in the film archive they were safer.


It was a film library, not an archive as such, and material regarded as no longer required was junked on a regular basis. I'm not sure what the 16mm f/r copies were doing there at all, as the library was intended for material that originated on film. As it turned out, the library prints were safer than the ones held by BBC Enterprises, just not safe enough in some cases.
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Richard Bignell
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #7 on Jun 10, 2012, 4:52pm »

Jun 9, 2012, 7:14pm, craigrothwell wrote:
The Film Library sent memos out to the person who had ordered the episodes for ‘Blue Peter’ (an individual by the suspicious-sounding name of J. Smith!!), reminding them that the print was overdue, but it was never returned.

Justin Smith was Blue Peter's film editor at the time and it was he who ordered the episodes up for that edition of Blue Peter. There's absolutely no evidence that I'm aware of that the film library sent any memos to Justin or anyone else chasing them up. He was asked about them many years later, but film editors handed a vast quality of material, so there was no real reason for him to have any recollection as to what happened to these two particular reels of film.

The Film Library would have regularly held all the film rushes for Doctor Who as well as the 35mm recap sequences that were regularly made during the 1960s for playback of the cliffhanger the following week, but these were routinely destroyed as soon as they were no longer required.
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Richard Bignell
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #8 on Jun 10, 2012, 4:58pm »

Jun 10, 2012, 1:33pm, George D wrote:
What was the reason the film prints were destroyed. I thought being in the film archive they were safer.

As Daniel indicates, the Film Library was a working library of potentially useful material, rather than being an archive. As such, they regularly assessed and disposed of material from stock if it wasn't seen as having any ongoing value.
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Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #9 on Jun 10, 2012, 5:58pm »
@richard Even though the Editor could not recall those two particular films, did he describe in anyway how the process of obtaining clips for the show usually worked? Did they tend to send films back once they got the necessary clips? Had they ever discarded films? Or allowed staff members to keep unused film for personal collections? Could he recall where in the office they would store film temporarily as they worked on a Blue Peter episode?

I'm assuming that all this had been covered extensively before, but I've yet to hear the whole story. I should really buy a copy of Wiped! ... it sounds very interesting.
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Richard Bignell
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #10 on Jun 10, 2012, 6:05pm »
I've no idea Mark, but he was being asked about this 30 or so years after the event!
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Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #11 on Jun 10, 2012, 6:15pm »
Talk about your overdue books. :D Poor guy. It would kill me to try and remember something that specific from 30 years ago. I'm sure he gave it his best.

Just so aggravating that no one knows what could've happened to these films. They were in such close proximity to the BBC ... having been handled by Blue Peter. I truly hope one day its discovered the two reels are in the personal collection of someone closely related to the show. I can imagine some coffee-boy asking if he could have the films after Mr. Smith had finished getting the clips he needed. Or maybe someone said "i'll return them to the library", stuck them in some cupboard at their house, and forgot about them. Who knows. Just another mystery to rattle inside my brain. :P
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"If we can find Richard III under a parking lot after 500 years, then surely we can locate more missing episodes of Doctor Who."
Greg H
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #12 on Jun 10, 2012, 8:14pm »
It is certainly something to hope for! They probably ended up in a skip, but then there is also the slim chance they wound up in the back of someone's car. We may never know unless they turn up somewhere.
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Richard Bignell
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #13 on Jun 10, 2012, 8:18pm »
There's absolutely no reason to suggest that The Tenth Planet #4 didn't end up back where it came from after its use on Blue Peter. It's The Daleks' Master Plan #4 that didn't end going back to where it came from.
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Greg H
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Re: The junked Six Film Library episodes?
« Reply #14 on Jun 10, 2012, 9:14pm »
Yes quite so; we will most likely never know what happened to either of them for sure unless they turn up somewhere.
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