www.missing-episodes.com - Fury from The Deep Search

John Harwood (bjblackpool)
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Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #45 on Mar 11, 2012, 9:36pm »

Mar 10, 2012, 8:58am, Richard Bignell wrote:

The very fuzzy copy I managed to source rather gave the game away. It had a "BBC F&VT Library" overlay on the picture in the top left hand corner!

One friend of mine got his copy only to complain it was widescreen: somewhere down the chain someone had decided to remove the "F&VTL" and timecode by superimposing black bars at the top and bottom

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davidstead
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Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #46 on Mar 12, 2012, 4:52pm »

Hi Ronnie,
The motive for marking the original and the levine copy's, was to accertain where an eventual bootleg copy had originated from. Ian Levine had by 1987, long been able to purchase duplicate prints/umatics of the b/w & colour who's, by his arrangement with the various departments involved. If I recall correctly, Ian Levine bought 16mm duplicate prints of the ice warriors (around £500 each).
Around the mid eighties, a number of bootlegs (sourced from the copies of Doctor Who Ian Levine purchased, but not specifically copied by him for Mr Howell) appeared from a chap called Steven Howell. However by the time of the Ice Warriors recovery, I believe he had fallen out of favour.

Ice warriors did take a long time to appear on the bootleg circuit as I believe it was known that something had been done to try and stop it being bootlegged.

Once I knew the originals were going to be marked, I was able to arrange a basic tfr to vhs before the marking (untouched since 1987). At least it could then be proved if it ever needed to be, that they weren't recovered with those odd markings on. Otherwise no one could have proved it either way.

As regards them not being cue dots, Steven, that is only to explain what the markings were. The are cue dots (just in the wrong place).

Thankfully of course tfr to VHS/DVD for release, enables things like the erroneous dots to be 'removed', so no harm done you might say.

It's the fact he marked them in the first place that's not right, for whatever reason. Considering he then went on to wipe a lot of kids programmes not long after I left the archive dept. I think the right answer to Denny's question is 'far too long!'

Hope that all helps,
Davidx

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dennywilson
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Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #47 on Mar 12, 2012, 6:20pm »

Mar 12, 2012, 4:52pm, davidstead wrote:

Hi Ronnie,
The motive for marking the original and the levine copy's, was to accertain where an eventual bootleg copy had originated from. Ian Levine had by 1987, long been able to purchase duplicate prints/umatics of the b/w & colour who's, by his arrangement with the various departments involved. If I recall correctly, Ian Levine bought 16mm duplicate prints of the ice warriors (around £500 each).
Around the mid eighties, a number of bootlegs (sourced from the copies of Doctor Who Ian Levine purchased, but not specifically copied by him for Mr Howell) appeared from a chap called Steven Howell. However by the time of the Ice Warriors recovery, I believe he had fallen out of favour.

Ice warriors did take a long time to appear on the bootleg circuit as I believe it was known that something had been done to try and stop it being bootlegged.

Once I knew the originals were going to be marked, I was able to arrange a basic tfr to vhs before the marking (untouched since 1987). At least it could then be proved if it ever needed to be, that they weren't recovered with those odd markings on. Otherwise no one could have proved it either way.

As regards them not being cue dots, Steven, that is only to explain what the markings were. The are cue dots (just in the wrong place).

Thankfully of course tfr to VHS/DVD for release, enables things like the erroneous dots to be 'removed', so no harm done you might say.

It's the fact he marked them in the first place that's not right, for whatever reason. Considering he then went on to wipe a lot of kids programmes not long after I left the archive dept. I think the right answer to Denny's question is 'far too long!'

Hope that all helps,
Davidx

Just how big are those cue marks?

In all Serious, how long WAS Adam Lee in charge over there?

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francisniemczyk
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Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #48 on Apr 7, 2012, 3:08am »

Original Message:
The Cue Dots that Adam Lee had put on the Ice Warriors prints, were exactly for the reason of tracing bootleg copies. The 16mm dupe print copies that Ian Levine purchased from the BBC were marked in a similar way. It was to see if any bootlegs appeared and then trace them to either the library prints or the Levine ones.

Is it known if this marking of the returned Ice Warriors prints was carried out BEFORE or AFTER the BBC had dupe negatives of the prints made for its archives (presumably these dupe negatives would have been used to make Ian Levine's prints, as well as providing a 'safety master' for the BBC Archive itself)?
If the marking was done BEFORE making the dupe negatives, then these 'security markings' should be identical on the master prints, the dupe negatives, and any prints from the dupe negs (such as Ian Levine's prints).
If the master prints were marked AFTER the BBC's dupe negs had been made, then the master prints and Ian Levine's prints would have had to marked separately - and not necessarily in the same places (this would indicate if the master print OR the dupe print had been pirated). In this case, would the dupe negs (made before the master prints had been marked) have subsequently been marked too? (Again, this marking could again have been in a different position to that on the master and dupe prints - this again would indicate any pirate copies made directly from these dupe negatives.)
Many thanks.
Francis Niemczyk

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Steven Sigel
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Re: Fury from The Deep Search
« Reply #49 on Apr 7, 2012, 3:16am »

When I have some free time, I'll pull out one of the prints and take a look for the mark..
I do know that they printed them with the soundtrack too light, so it's necessary to turn up the volume when running the prints...

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