|  Author | Topic: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement (Read 3,174 times) |
Rob Moss
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|  | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #45 on May 28, 2012, 9:11pm » | |
May 28, 2012, 5:35pm, Colin Anderton wrote:
I know we could go round in circles for ever on this one; I just hope - like everyone else - that something may turn up one day.
But I don't see why some so instantly dismiss the idea of theft - surely it remains a possibility.
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It's a slim possibility that one, maybe two tapes might have been taken, but do you realise how big a quad tape is..? You can't just shove one in your pocket and walk out with it. The chances are hugely stacked against it.
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Robert Belford
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #46 on May 28, 2012, 11:28pm » | |
I know it was a momentous event. I think this was the occasion when a colour TV was brought into infant school for us to watch it.
But as I already said, in effect it is the studio bits that were ditched. Not the footage of the actual event. I just think there might have been the attitude that all that was being lost was some very familiar people talking in the studio while a much higher quality copy of the actual moon footage could be ordered from the US if it was ever needed.
I believe we look on things very differently now. Who imagined there would ever be interest in old continuity and there would be entire online "channels" devoted to it?
It seems there was no proper archive policy for video at the BBC at that time. Most things were kept as a telerecording. So perhaps they would have had to transfer several hours of video to film when there was no benefit from doing so for the foreseeable future. A budget would have to be found, time booked on very expensive equipment and so on?
As mentioned, likely none of the moon bits would ever be shown again as they were inferior quality from over the satellite. So the question would be: "are we ever going to want to show the bits with James Burke and Patrick Moore again?"
It's interesting that ITV also junked its broadcast recordings of this. I do wish they had all been saved.
As revealed recently by Michael Crick, the BBC is still junking the major part of news interviews that are filmed. I'm sure 40 years from now someone will ask "why on earth did they record a 30 minute interview with xyz politician and only keep the three minutes that were broadcast? Were they mad?"
Maybe the answer is that familiarity breeds contempt. While the distance of time breeds nostalgia!
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Laurence Piper
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #47 on May 29, 2012, 8:28am » | |
May 28, 2012, 11:28pm, Robert Belford wrote:I know it was a momentous event. I think this was the occasion when a colour TV was brought into infant school for us to watch it.
But as I already said, in effect it is the studio bits that were ditched. Not the footage of the actual event. I just think there might have been the attitude that all that was being lost was some very familiar people talking in the studio while a much higher quality copy of the actual moon footage could be ordered from the US if it was ever needed.
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But if that's so, why keep the "very familiar people talking in the studio" bits for other (less historic) Apollo missions? If Apollo 11's studio coverage is wiped, why bother with keeping other missions? That's the key point here to me.
As you say, it's interesting that ITN don't have their coverage either. It's strange, to say the least, as they do have much in the way of important political and national events going quite a way back. I realise we're getting into the realms of conspiracy theory territory here but you do wonder why Apollo 11 has been so disproportionately decimated.
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Robert Belford
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #48 on May 29, 2012, 11:12am » | |
Probably just part of the lottery that existed regarding tapes in those days. Where they would be on a shelf and one would be reused as needed. Maybe that programme had a different producer who didn't think it should be saved and so signed off the tape for reuse? Something like that?
I agree they should have been saved as they would give a UK perspective to this event and show how the BBC covered it.
Today we probably have much more of a desire to document, record and save things and we're more sophisticated in the way we do it. A couple of years ago I showed one my short films and I recorded the audience reaction as they watched it. I really like having that footage.
Often I wonder why I didn't document things more in the 1980's. I had a 35mm SLR camera and a Super 8 movie camera. But there are periods of a year or so where there is almost nothing.
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Laurence Piper
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #49 on May 29, 2012, 1:04pm » | |
May 29, 2012, 11:12am, Robert Belford wrote:Probably just part of the lottery that existed regarding tapes in those days. Where they would be on a shelf and one would be reused as needed. Maybe that programme had a different producer who didn't think it should be saved and so signed off the tape for reuse? Something like that?
I agree they should have been saved as they would give a UK perspective to this event and show how the BBC covered it.
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Lottery is the right word. I don't think though that archiving awareness is a recent thing. TV archives abroad seem to have kept more of the sort of things from the '60s that the BBC didn't. There are fantastically comprehensive sets of series available and screened on various channels of the sort of thing that the BBC can only dream they had been half as foresighted about. I feel though that with the BBC there is an attitude by some (not by yourself) that the corporation can do / have done no wrong. They have made some serious errors of judgement over the years though and I feel most strongly that point has to continually be made, for the sake of balance.
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Neil Megson
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #50 on May 29, 2012, 4:02pm » | |
It's surprising that no more amateur off-air videotapes of this have been found - especially as the "early adopters" of home video were probably more interested in science / technology than average.
Was this a case of everyone (BBC, ITV, viewers) thinking "this is so important, someone will definitely be archiving this" with the result that, in fact, no-one kept a copy ?
Or did we imagine the whole thing ? I mean, a man on the moon ? It's hardly likely, is it ? 
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Tony Walshaw
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #51 on May 31, 2012, 7:52am » | |
May 28, 2012, 7:49pm, Ash Stewart wrote:
May 27, 2012, 9:58pm, Tony Walshaw wrote:| Imagine the furore if the footage of Kennedy's death (albeit non-BBC) and the recording of England's World Cup victory had been wiped. The broadcasters view that it was "an old programme" and "the expensive tapes must be re-used" is ridiculous to the average licence-payer to whom these events are very memorable. They won't see how, even with the commercial argument and (lack of proper) archiving explained to them, that the Apollo 11 landing does not survive to a greater extent. They will wonder why persons at the BBC with 'clout' did not foresee the value of this footage in the future, and did not say "hey, doesn't matter about the cost, we have to keep copies of this event.... |
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The JFK assassination isn't the best comparison to make here, given that no TV station filmed even a second of it; all footage is amateur cine-camera shot footage. And it didn't even get screened anywhere until 1975... |
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 Good point.
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George D
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #52 on Jun 1, 2012, 3:37am » | |
While I wasnt born at the time, and while the footage of the exact assassination wasnt broadcast until years later, the tv broadcasts from many sources still exist. I recorded several hours of one off a channel a few years ago, and I saw a dealer with many different networks.
Basically it has a news broadcaster saying something happened but we dont know what.. and then the story continues ufolding over hours. While it isnt the original footage, it is still the original broadcast, very riviting and it did take the nation by storm. I still think as a broadcast that relayed the material to the public, it still stands comparable to apollo 11, 9/11 etc as an event where one remembers where they were when it unfolded (even though we didnt see the actual footage until later.
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George D
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #53 on Jun 2, 2012, 4:05am » | |
Tying the pieces together, John King mentioned in the Dr Who forum that he has some original Apollo 11 audio recordings. Are these known about on this end?
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Laurence Piper
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #54 on Jun 2, 2012, 8:52am » | |
There are some audio recordings in existence. I'm not sure if these are the same ones but I would think they're probably known about.
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Tony Walshaw
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #55 on Jun 6, 2012, 10:16pm » | |
Jun 1, 2012, 3:37am, George D wrote:While I wasnt born at the time, and while the footage of the exact assassination wasnt broadcast until years later, the tv broadcasts from many sources still exist. I recorded several hours of one off a channel a few years ago, and I saw a dealer with many different networks.
Basically it has a news broadcaster saying something happened but we dont know what.. and then the story continues ufolding over hours. While it isnt the original footage, it is still the original broadcast, very riviting and it did take the nation by storm. I still think as a broadcast that relayed the material to the public, it still stands comparable to apollo 11, 9/11 etc as an event where one remembers where they were when it unfolded (even though we didnt see the actual footage until later. |
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Yes, this footage is equivalent in importance to any Apollo 11 studio footage.
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Paul Vanezis
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #56 on Jun 7, 2012, 7:36pm » | |
May 28, 2012, 3:08am, George D wrote:| I understand Paul has to be politically correct because of his relationship with the beeb, and while im disappointed that paul may not think certain things are important, I would I still respect all that he's done. That being said, I hope there are others on the restoration team that are more concerned to preserving all and let history decide what should be kept. I would hate to see more stuff lost because someone wheather in or out of the beeb thought it wasnt worth saving. |
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I think George you are very confused. I don't have to be politically correct at all. I don't work for the BBC anymore, but the decision to wipe this material was made a very long time ago, at least 15 years before I worked there. I did everything I could when I had the opportunity to preserve material and get it back into an archive and on screen; I've been doing this for nearly 30 years so I know what I'm talking about.
May 28, 2012, 3:08am, George D wrote:| Vaughn, thanks again for going the extra mile and Im glad you saved your original instead of trusting the beeb to it. |
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I'm sure Vaughan will correct me if I'm wrong, but he loaned his film to the BFi, and Graham Briddon did the same with his. It was the BFi who lost their transfer, not the BBC. The BBC do have a very nice transfer of Graham's film in their archive (thanks to me) and Vaughan has offered to loan his film now he knows there's an interest in it, which is very good of him.
Just because I am trying to explain the imperfect world of the past, and have views which others don't agree with doesn't mean to say I think these things should have been wiped. I have said several times on this thread that I wish these things had been kept. I am simply pointing out that they weren't, that there is no big conspiracy theory behind it and that the facts do in fact stack up.
I thank you.
Paul
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Vaughan Stanger
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #57 on Jun 7, 2012, 8:09pm » | |
Paul is correct. Graham Briddon and I loaned our films to the BFI.
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Peter Stirling
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #58 on Jun 7, 2012, 9:11pm » | |
Not one to add to any conspiracy theory 
but its interesting perhaps that from the year 1969, the BBC kept miles and miles of good quality tape of the Queen waving and driving up to Wales to hand Price Charles an envelope.
Yet the archive of perhaps the greatest event of the 20th Century is well depleted.
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Colin Anderton
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| | Re: Apollo 11 - Harold Wilsons live statement
« Reply #59 on Jun 8, 2012, 6:43am » | |
Peter, that's an excellent point! If they considered that nonsense fit for archiving, then why not Apollo 11?
Another reason to believe the Apollo 11 tapes may have been kept originally, but "disappeared" soon after.
Colin.
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